so much hate and so much abuse from someone who is mad at me for insults

that is kinda of a mid **** dude

are you playing DTD in May?...kinda worried now incase we meet ...you really have a lot of hate for me

this was not meant for you Gary sorry ,it was meant for Steve

Demetri im going to try being constructive here.

Take a look at this quote.

Now lets pretend this quote was Asylum's post talking about you.

Then go back and read the chat log in the OP.

Demetri-- now do you understand?

Demetri you seem like a very sharp dude and a very hard worker. Some things here just don't make sense.

I think you understand enough that having someone grind solely 1-3$ 180 mans while in 12k+ makeup is just a -EV thing for both you and your horse. Its not like you are staking robots. You are staking people. To expect them to be able to play well and profitable in that situation is insane. It is irrelevant that your contract gives you the power to lower the stakes when oyu feel like it. Hypotheticall speaking I could sign up to play HSMTT for you, go on a 10k downswing, and then you lower max BI to 5$ without asking.

It almost makes it seem like when you get to the point where you realize they are a losing poker player, you get off on threatening them and just trying to ruin their life. Its same thing as cutting a horse you realize won't work out.

Its unclear from skype logs who was more in the wrong. Its extremely poor faith if he was tanking it while deep in makeup just to get the volume in necessary to get a 1k cashout. If thats the case, and he really was playing just a couple hours a couple days a week while super mass tabling more than ever just to reach volume requirements for 1k/mo then demetriy has right to be super angry. If he also actually got a job immediately after getting the 1k/mo, Demetriy should be very furious. While not straight up stealing, it is basically the same thing.

If it turns out that Asylum just sucks at poker really bad and is a losing player at microstakes, then Demetriy is a pretty big scumbag and forced the dudes hand.

Its hard to tell who is in the wrong here, and if I were to arbitrate I'd have to have a much more detailed look at skype logs and play history. Regardless, it baffles me that demetriy treats his horse with such disrespect. That seems like such a -EV play and his goal sohuld be to make money. Maybe he views it on a larger scale and he thinks writing off the 16k micro loss, and berating, will scare away future stakes.

This whole thing is why I try to only go into backing agreements with friends. Backing agreements should have "good faith" And both of the people in this dispute both did not exibit that possibly during the agreement. Demetriy-lowering stakes absurdly while in makeup (not sure of this), ending the 1k/mo arbitrarily (may be just, but they should have a detailed chat log explaining it. He really has no choice if the guy is straight using him.) and Asylum -super mass tabling making himself -EV just to collect his allowance, getting a job after getting paid to grind full time.

Once again all these facts don't seem 100% given information I browsed. And its easy to immediately jump down Demetriy's thought and view the horse as a victim, but it isn't that simple.

P.S. I absolutely love how he has to ask permission to play a 1$ rebuy micromillions. lmao.

P.P.S. It blows my mind that backers think that only allowing horses to "shot take" on sundays is a method for success. Such more variance and probably not as much edges just because more people play sundays. I think there are so many more competent players that the idea that Sundays are so ridiculously more profitable than other days of the week is sort of a myth. I'm curious as to Demetriy's reasoning for this structure of just 180 mans during week and then sunday big mtts and if he has data to back it up.

P.P.S. Demetriy you can stake me on any US site if you include that in your operation

+1 to all this

I'm pretty sure this is the exact reason he has a successful operation at all. Nobody would sign with him for the typical 50/50 no benefit ****deal commonly offered by backers.

.....really? you post aids on the reg

What threat? Saying he won't move down to the stakes you want him to isn't a threat. But regardless, he said he wouldn't move down, you backed down and accepted it - how is the agreement broken?

And you still haven't explained why you bring up how he didn't send the stake money back until you posted in this thread, but then you instantly shipped $1 K back. You seem to want to use the fact that he had the stake money for a few hours after starting this thread as some kind of issue against him, yet it's pretty obvious that you're not very concerned about him taking your money at all, are you? And now I see you mention that if he's not going to play, you want the $1 K back, as if there's some concern he's going to keep it. You shipped it back to him unsolicited, didn't you?

Seems like some good points.

As does this.

Yeah, see, I don't think stuff like this is really adding anything to the thread. I don't mod this forum, so I don't know what's normally acceptable in here, but all this stuff is doing is giving Demetri fodder for "you all insult me and I take it like a man but you get mad when I insult someone else" posts.

This I would agree with. Pretty sure Demetri didn't get into any threats of violence this time, and there might be some people getting this situation confused with the last one.

Demetri just don't get it.

He haven't figured out what real 'argument' is.
That rambling the same "facts" over and over every other post doesn't change anything.
That being mental even for those who scammed (not in this case) him doesn't make it right.
That trying to find angles to insult/hurt/threaten even those ppl who just made normal comments is a low and weak persons actions.

But even tho, I very much doubt situation would change and that there is much point in arguing with him, thread is amusing.

+1

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing about you. And that's really all we need to say to each other.

No threats made to his family?

Bobo-- lets say you and I had a disagreement. What if I told you I would make a website with your mom's picture and underneath it state that she is the mother of a huge scumbag and thief/liar/scammer (obv lies but doesnt matter). Then link your mom's friends and all of your relatives to the site and promise to promote the site to the ends of the earth, thats not at all threatening?

Perhaps not, so now lets say I do the same for your wife and then link her friends, family and co-workers to it relentlessly for months. Do you feel threatened yet?

How about your son or your daughter? A website with their photos and nice bold title, "Our daddy owe 16k and iz scumbag theef wont play 180 3r!".

I personally would take the most offense to threats made toward my loved ones.

This is online poker, right?

Please post more about how every1 in America treats each other poorly so this kind of behavior in your book is a-oh-kay!

rats get thru mazes quicker than u.. u understand whats im saying ya?

This is wrong, there is threats against himself and very real threats against his wife his two young children and his family members, just because he doesn't threaten physical violence does not make these threats which would endanger his wife and kids correct.

Threatening to contact his wife, his wifes friends and family AND also put pictures on the website of all these parties not involved and then along side all these photos put up his house address where his kids and wife sleeps then also threaten to send information to the local tax office to make him homeless saying this is not threatening is pure lol.





Any third parties not involved seeing there wifes, themselves, children etc up on a website along side a 'theif' is going to get very angry towards op...







Treating someone like this would also have a massive impact on ops state or mind ops family and home life :





& finally threatening his family's financial situation in result could make his family homeless:



If you cant see how all of this is indirectly threatening and endangering the life of his wife and two little kids then you are deluded.

20 pages and counting nothing resolved but insults and anger.
Everyone has an opinion I get it but shouldn't this thread be locked by now , where's it leading to ?
Another 20+ pages ...

End of the day only 2 ppl can sort this situation out & that will probably be sorted out privately for once .

I don't think you read my post very thoroughly. There's a reason I used the words "threats of violence". I'm not for a minute suggesting there weren't threats made, or that any of them were appropriate.

Great. If you find someone who suggested that there weren't threats made, you can tell them they are deluded and that what they're saying is pure lol. No idea why you're telling me.

You guys are reading way too much into my post. I'm not condoning or in any way supporting the way Demetri chooses to deal with people - it's pretty much a polar opposite to the way I handle things. I'm simply supporting the notion that there were no threats of direct physical violence made, unlike in the last thread. That's it. Nitpicking as to whether what he said could result in some kind of harm really isn't getting us anywhere.

Cbf reading through the thread but 15k mu playing 3rs and av stake 20~ for mtts.... Isn't that absurd for an average skilled player?

does 2p2?

what types of threats are OK to 2p2?

is it OK with 2p2 for some1 to sign up a member, then when they steal from him threaten to send guys after him to kill him?

is it OK with 2p2 for some1 to sign up a member, then when they DONT steal a cent or break the contract to threaten (and then follow through) to cause grievous mental anguish to his family?

where exactly is the line of acceptable behavior? if this guy is allowed to keep signing up 2p2 members what exactly would it take for some1 to not be allowed to?

+1

Hi Bob ,it is a grey area the broken rule bit

because i backed down to his threat of not moving down in games.he made this threat a few times

so i did try ,but he was not having .so i gave in and we carried on.my only other option was to walk away and leave him in make up

so MAYBE he did not directly break the rules ,but just as breaking rules is wrong ,making threats to is wrong ?

to sum that part up ,he agreed to a contract ,stick to it.when i say move down you got to move down.then when he says no and i say yes what do we do then ?so i see the threat as bad as breaking the rules.because i was in a corner and had to give into him

the money bit i'm not sure if you get it and the timeline .he had some of my money and was ignoring me.when you have problems with horses and they do that it normally only means one thing.

so i thought i was getting rolled ,hence the chat.once he came here and posted and sent the money back i knew he was not going to roll me.so i sent the $1,000 back (he is still my horse and needs to grind).which i am 100% fine with as long as he carries on.if he does not them i'm 99% he will send it back

2+2 has really gone to the movies on this one

this is not the jokerius thread (there was loads of copy and paste and edits in that thread fyi)

i post screen shots so i can't edit my proof!

as for this thread ,STOP with the threats to his family.it did not happen and will never happen

i made threats to him that i would contact people around him if he scams me

LOADS of people agree with this method ,some don't .fair enough,but when he refused to send the money back,which he admits i thought i was going to get scammed.

maybe i and others need to review this method,but it is not like i said i am going to kill your wife ,like some are hinting here .lol,please come back to earth

but i do believe if someone steals from you they deserve to have people around them find out.at one point he looked like he was going to steal.i tried calling him and messaging him over 100x(he ignored me).ask him

so he made threats ,i made threats.he did abuse me to and yes i went over board with abuse to

sorry

would i do some of it again ,yes ,do i take some of it back ,yes.

this is a tough spot i and other backers get it ,sorry we don't always handle it well.when so much money is on the line things can get heated and that heat can take over

The pursuit of happiness though

I was worried no one else would notice

Your choppy posts will have a much better feel if you start writing them in the form of Haiku

Thief stole my money
I kill him and his babies
I send more money

People all hate me
Me mafia, beat nerds up
They are all jealous

I post skype screenshot
Over and over again
Everyone dumb

I back 300
We are Sparta! We kill all
I give 90 10



Hope that help you out
Have fun with your endeavors
Of course - All the Best

Think this thread goes to show that horses should have rights too, or their own terms and conditions that a backer needs to sign. When I first heard of staking and "make up" I thought it is ridiculous, why do people get backed? Because they can't afford to play x stakes, so what happens if they lose the money staked to them and can't afford to pay it back?

It is like backers have insurance, the horse has to make money, they can't finish in a loss.

So some players will make back the money they lost eventually, but what about the players that just don't have the capability? It is not necessarily their fault that they can't beat the games. Why should they get labelled a scammer?

Horses should have rights!!

No one should get spoken to, the way asylum was spoken to by Demetri, calling him a bad father is just way out of line, evil people will try to think of the way they could hurt you the most, knowing asylum just wanted to look after his family.

Stalking his friends and family on facebook, so he can tell them what a failure asylum is, when they have nothing to do with the poker world, what is the point in that??? To humiliate him?

Demetri, you should probably take some time off and spend it with your family, then you might chill out a little, and remember that there is more to life than filling your mattress with money until you reach the ceiling and there is no where to sleep anymore.

How is this mess gonna be resolveD?