yeah demetri what you dont seem to get is that when you treat people like that you're putting yourself in a negative freeroll. you should be trying to de-escalate the situation but you prefer to throw gas on the fire. if you approach a man with reason/empathy he is much more likely to want to make right by you than if you threaten his family and reputation.

i get that you feel you were wronged, but that does not justify the ad hominem attacks you made on him and his quality as a father/husband, as well as the constant threats that seem to border on blackmail. look where your actions have gotten you and try not to make the same mistakes in the future.


the fact of the matter is if you had avoided all the personal insults and hadn't treated him like a dog you would likely have a lot of people siding with you right now. i think it was good of you to help him with precashouts and understand why you're disappointed with what seemed like a lack of commitment by OP to grind off the makeup he accrued, but you simply can not treat humans the way you do. just be civilized.

This is actually getting pretty sad now.

hold on ,we even spoke on skype about how you deal with bad horses/scammers etc

you said this to me ...



you say i am the crazy mad one ,yet you want to "rip there heads of"

should we get you banned from 2+2 now ?

dude i have never ripped anyones head of ,i'm sure have not either.but these type of people can drive you mad.when mad you vent.that is normal

some need to read my post early on today and see why i was getting so mad

when the horse threatens to break the rules of the contract you remind him he signed his contract, maybe appeal to his honor instead of demeaning him? and if he still refuses you bring the issue to MP and consult with other backers. or maybe u just gotta know when to CutchaLosses


having a go at someone is usually cheeky/fun, when you have a go at someone you try to destroy their core being. this is despicable and downright stupid when hes 15k in debt to you(think about his mindset/psyche going forward)

well i agree with some of this posts.the treating him so bad etc was not that bad

yes it was bad when he threaten/broke the rules ,but before that and after it was good.read what he wrote about me in my long post today and his op

i always tried to work out a decent plan with him,even up to date i am saying put your family first play on the side and i can still let you profit from poker and kill some MU

all very fair imo and can be done ,but he wants a freeroll out of this

you all think he cares that much about how i shouted at him when he would not stick to the contact ?lol

he wants to dump the stake and look good .that is all

the chat logs are in this thread ,i do question him and say you can't do that

yet he gets mad i get mad ,he says **** your contract and i say **** you

all pretty standard ,we are grown men.everyone thinks he deserves to dump $15,000 make up because of a few names i called him.he called me plenty to ,lol

life just does not work like that,he gave me **** so i gave it back

You have issues. What you said and what Matt said are 2 WAY different things. He talks about how he gets mad but never said anything or acted on it. You actually threaten. People like you piss me off. Threats and law suits and insurance... Always looking for the angle. Just be a stand up guy and you wont have issues.

PS
My comments are coming from a 100% outsider. I dont back, I dont want to be backed, I dont owe a person a thing in this world. Maybe my mortgage and american express but that gets paid in full every month.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/55.../#post42650781

Here you go Demetri. Lets see what people not connected to the mtt community think. If im wrong and you are the victim here ill apologise fully

lolol yeah, I tried to sympathize with you that it sucks to be stolen from. you are the absolute nut low

You do realize that you are burning equity when you take highly aggressive lines? We all have situations in our lives that would be awesome to make someone we feel is a scumbag embarassed and ashamed for what they have done/are doing. This doesn't change the fact that he's the one in control, as you can't transfer money from his account to yours.

Calm your emotions, you believe you are in the right. Save the cheap insults and other bull**** for when it's surpassed the point of holy hell, you are NOT getting your money.

Hope you don't scare off too many horses!

I'm pretty sure all of the "public shaming" threats will be discredited by those chat logs...it's pretty crazy to resort to it after this type of dispute as op didn't steal anything. Just seems like demitri made a bad backing decision and has to live with the consequences

Demitri you are so far out of line it's unreal, even if he broke the rules. I'm surprised how well op handled it...you seem to think you are above people because you have the ability to back them and think they owe you something.

demetri my man, where u from?

i was going to post here, but people with an opinion about how dimitri conducts himself should really post in the About the Forums thread.

No, it doesn't.

Venting to another backer and screaming at your horses is not even remotely close to the same thing.

Also, you need to stop using a threat not to do something in your contract as evidence of breaking your contract.

One of the biggest questions I am curious about: If horse chooses that poker is no longer a viable option of income to support his family/himself, is he allowed to give up poker completely or by signing this contract has he obliged to continue grinding small stakes 180s with heaps of makeup and putting his family needs on hold until he grinds this out?

Unfortunately, I think demetri believes the latter. If this is the case I strongly recommend that horses read their contracts with extreme care and are very wary of the fact that their stakes may be shrunk drastically when in large amounts of makeup/debt. (To avoid hell-like situations like the above). As well, by giving demetri access to your personal details etc. imposes the risk of these details being posted on the internet should this agreement go sour. I regret giving him any personal details even though I have cleared makeup and since left his backing agreement with no negative repercussions. (Other than my mental health is at an all time low, but it is on the up and up at least.)

One thing that I can guarantee that Asylum never intended on scamming. However, when your back is against the wall and you are in his position and must choose between spending several hundred hours in a game in which you are unsure that you can beat any longer and supporting a family, I think I too would choose the latter.

I don't care how much money you offer in terms of % cut but if the safety/health of my family and myself is in jeopardy at any point, I would rather grind minimum wage flipping burgers.

As poorly as Asylum has been treated here I would believe it totally acceptable for him to quit poker and find a job to support his family, and I would not blame him for doing so. However, I will post a solution that will hopefully benefit demetri and asylum both out of respect for both parties as human beings. I believe Asylum suggested this solution but was shot down.

1) Asylum gets a job 4/5 days per week to pay his bills.
2) Should be no need for advanced cashouts of any type due to this.
3) 2 days off/week he can grind the makeup (perhaps a reduced makeup for the trouble he has been caused).
4) Demetri gives Asylum and his family an apology for their mistreatment.
5) I would be more than happy to offer HH reviews for Asylum and to help him with his mental state. Hopefully others would do this too. (I'm just a bad reg).
6) When Asylum becomes a consistent winner it will be a slow but steady process in
clearing this makeup, however, his family and demetri will benefit greatly. (That's all that matters right?)
-Perhaps when more MU cleared put him into 15 180s and allow him to keep all bonuses for himself as I am sure he will leave stake after clearing makeup. So this effort would essentially just be to relieve a poor decision of backing him in the first place.

I would just like to chime in that I have utmost respect for Asylum for not rolling the stake earlier. If this was my father I would be proud that he has went through these lengths and was willing to get another job to support me. Sometimes degens will be degens and make poor life decisions that are not profitable in the long run.

Getting moved down in stakes in the first place is total BS and no horse should ever accept such a contract.

The entire point of getting staked is that you are provided with virtually unlimited funds so you can always play everything you are +ev in and not have to worry about the money. It's the backer's responsibility to make sure that the horse he is signing is +ev for the stakes that they initially agree on.

If a horse is forced to move down because of a bad run, then why even have a backing deal in the first place? He can worry about BRM and downswings on his own money. He should not have to worry about it when on stake.

when he made his threat i backed down

i have said that 10x+

it makes perfect sense,if i did not back down i would have to drop him in MU

so i said ok then and let him carry on

that is clear in the chat logs ,does that mke it ok now that he was making these threats all through the stake ?of course not

the offer you are saying has been one that has been made to him many time the last few days

read my first post today .that was what i said ,exact to what you said

it is fair imo

Man up already and offer many players 99/1 deals to show how much you mean business. That will put all of the haters in their places and show you really have what it takes to run a good business. Explain that your threats are just your version of a "special sauce" that comes as a bonus at no extra cost. You just need to market your uncontrollable rage better that's all. Maybe get that talking baby to do an ad for you.

All the best.

well said and from someone who is actually owed more . bringing family into it was low . Lol at the amount of people insulting someone for insulting someone .

i just posted this in the other forum ,well said

i am on trail here and made to look like the bad guy because my horse broke my rules and said he will dump my stake

so i go of on one and call him names ,2+2 goes mad at me and guess what ,calls me names (i have been sworn at ,called every name under the sun.via here pms etc)...i am a man and take it ,people have a view and are not happy with me.so they vent

i do the same ,lol

say no more

There are many reasons why I don't see how anyone can expect Asylum to continue with the staking arrangement: (a) I get the impression that Asylum thinks it would be best to just leave the poker world for the time being and get a regular job; (b) the stakes that Demetri expects him to play sounds far too low to me to ever realistically get out of make-up; and (c) the relationship is way to poisonous at a personal level to continue.

Demetri needs to just accept that some investments lose money and drop the horse, assuming Asylum is no longer holding on to any of his money.

demetri,
You get that threatening to break your contract and breaking your contract are two totally different things, right?

great ,another fair comment

but he wants to dump my stake and carry on playing .that i have a problem with

a $16,000 problem !!!

but please note one thing ,my plan for him to get my MU back can also help him

i said if he makes profits daily he can chop some of that and add some to MU

so this is a guy that needs money ,when he is not working i am giving him another option to make money

fair ???

but do you get that i backed down to his threat?

how do you read that then ?does that look good on him ?

he makes a threat ,i say to myself two options ,drop him now or go of on one

i went of on one and gave into the threat and let him play the same games

the same games that dug his MU so deep in the space of a few months