You won't get a reply at the pokerstars.com mail server. I think that was seized by the FBI as well. I think you would have to go to pokerstars.eu to mail them at that server if you want any info.

what other sites can us players play on? whats the top site for us players now?

+1... I do hope that either stars or tilt take this fight on. It's time that we have a clear judgement on this issue.

Great post as always PX...

Now more than ever, why did christie have to veto the NJ legislation

anyonehave an idea how far exactly the us doj could look into these poker companies once they get there hands on them? OBVI not for me, but a guy i know, wants to know if they cfould potentialy have complete records of everyones names and profits et. for tax purposes
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thxx

that^

You should probably read the sticky or the UIGEA here http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...ls-faq-651375/

to answer your question in short, as far as I understand it and someone correct me if I am completely off mark, but legislation only says that it is illegal to process payment to a gambling site for the purposes of "illegal gambling". The bill relies on other legislation to determine what is and isn't illegal. As far as I know the only state that online poker is illegal in is Washington. The DOJ however takes a different stance on the issue but I would suggest spending some time in the sticky.

You might need to shut down Norton if you run it, as mine treated the FTP.co.uk dl as a virus..............

I think that it's a little crazy at some of the stuff that is going around this forum. People asking where should I move....can I set up an alternate IP.....can I play on a different site.....wake the **** up people. If they can hit the three biggest sites, they can hit the smaller ones too. If online poker players would spend a fourth of the time that they spend trying to get their "fix", instead on taking action and getting their voice heard, we might get somewhere.

Yeah it sucks, but now is a very good time to do something. Instead of spending so much time trying to figure out how to get around the system, spend some time on trying to change the system. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...hread-1021812/ Go to this thread if you do not know how.

I know everyone seems to be against legislation. Hows that working out for everyone now lol. Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of money tied up online as well. Not as much as some but instead of sitting around whining about it or trying to find some other site to bounce my money to(until it gets locked) I plan on doing something about it.

I dont know about the rest of you but I remember and enjoy the days when some donk could get on and deposit $500 on Party in minutes and donk it off b/c he wanted to play and it was his right to. I remember watching the owner at an old job deposit $500 after $500 online while i was at work and donk it off with 44 on a JJ6 board. If you guys want to bounce your money around and around trading stacks with nits and regs until those sites get locked , be my guest, but I think that the community as a whole would be better served banning together and doing something.

haven't you heard? we live in a democracy, if the majority wanted online poker to be legalized then we would have done it.

but.. ill join you guys in the cause... like my cause to spread anarchy.

Well i did not log off for last 3 days, was in a cash game and 2 tourneys and ftp just shut off by itself.
Now obv i cant log back in, was fun while it lasted.
Even played a lil 5/10 plo way above my limits, but competition did seem softer with barely any us players playing.

This situation is why I only deposit $10 at a time!!

Sorry to all the real poker players who have thousands of dollars floating in cyber space right now

Yeah. Now all the failed bills look pretty good by comparison - even Reid 3.0 maybe. Hopefully the furor of all the burnt poker players won't taper off, and we'll get a player-friendly federal bill through Congress in the very near future.

My prediction: we'll see a few states pop on intrastate Ipoker by end of 2012, and a federal bill within 2-5 years. By the end of the decade we'll have a mix of banned states, states with lottery-run Ipoker (possibly interstate pooled), maybe a few states with intrastate-only Ipoker by vested casinos (e.g. Indians) and interstate Ipoker under a federal bill. International player pools may return by the end of the decade, or maybe a little longer.

yes

In order to be convicted of money laundering the funds have to be involved in a crime. If FS and PS prove that operating an online poker site is not a crime than they cannot be convicted of money laundering.

LOL!! So if I launder money through a pizzaria then its not a crime because making pizza isnt a crime? I think you need to check your logic my friend!

If the DOJ comes after you then you are already cooked! Especially when it comes to money! My guess is they have found substantial amounts of paper trail supporting their money laundering claim.

In the end this will probably all be settled for a LARGE SUM of CASH! This will all precede a legitimate system put in place by the US Govt to run online poker sites.

This will happen organically if withdrawals are slow enough.

Isn't it amazing that root problem of all of this is that the "unlawful gambling legislation" was ambiguous? I mean if UIGEA had actually been a coherent and clear piece of legislation we would have known that online poker was clearly gambling. Instead it took 5 years of sketchy dodging and weaving by foreign companies, who had legal council to keep operating, and a world of frustration and slow demise for us.

It just seems like this would be an excellent case study to demonstrate why these last second bills are a joke and waste a lot of time and money.

sigh - if you "launder" money it has to have originated from an illegal activity, moreover the definition of money laundering was expanded several years ago, so that doing anything (ie not only attempts to disguise its origin) with the financial proceeds of crime is automatically money laundering.

The legal advice that Party got was NOT garbage. Indeed, I suspect it was the SAME legal advice that Tilt and Stars got.

Despite what some legal types post here, a lawyer who told his or her client "online poker is legal" without qualifications would be committing malpractice.

The advice probably said something along the lines of there being a strong argument that online poker is legal, but which had some chance of losing, so they were taking a risk. The advice probably also said that as long as the DOJ continued to take the position that online poker is illegal, there would be a danger of enforcement actions being taken.

Party decided it wasn't worth the risk. Stars and Tilt decided it was.

For all those thinking about withdrawing money from Stars, forget about it. I cash out a few weeks back and got my check last Saturday (April 9th) and deposited it in my bank that very day. It cleared the following Tuesday (the 12th), the funds were available for use in my checking account. On Friday the 15th the money was removed from my checking account. Forget about cashouts for now. I will check my account for the specific wording the bank gave for returning my funds to the check issuer.

It's not just UIGEAs fault or the DOJs why the sites are gone. IMO, the sites brought this on themselves. When the DOJ said they were operating illegally and after processors started getting busted which cost the sites millions they did nothing. The sites relied on legal opinions saying "we violate no law" but instead of fighting in court they simply ignored the DOJ. Which leads me to believe these legal opinions weren't worth the paper they were written on. The sites probably knew it, no company that thinks they're operating legally would simply let the DOJ seize millions without putting-up a fight. The said we "violate no law" because it was good PR but they knew what they were doing might be illegal add in the shady **** they did to move money and they had to know this day would come.

Is there a list of what US friendly real money sites are running.. Besides UB/Bodog or is that pretty much it?

I think the poster really misses the point on the bank fraud count.

The fraud is that you convince a bank to engage in an act that it believes is illegal.

Here's an example. Suppose a bank believes that you have been depositing money that you received from the proceeds of a chop shop (which traffics in stolen automobile parts). The bank is concerned that, having that information, it could be hit with a charge of receiving stolen property. So the bank stops depositing the checks.

In response, you create a dummy corporation which receives wire transfers from the alleged chop shop and you deposit checks from the dummy corporation.

This could lead to a charge of bank fraud. It could even lead to a charge of bank fraud if (a) the business that was originally writing the checks was not actually a chop shop or (b) it was a chop shop, but the receiving stolen property law would not have made the bank's accepting the checks illegal under the circumstances. The customer is nonetheless deceiving the bank into accepting transactions that it believes are illegal.

Stars and Tilt had a legal avenue for contesting the DOJ's actions against the processors. They could have brought a court case seeking a declaration that the transactions were legal and not covered by UIGEA. They chose not to do that and instead apparently tried to trick the banks into accepting transactions that the banks were being told by the DOJ were illegal.

I will also say that in addition to the legal issue, the argument that "I could have fought the ticket but instead I decided not to pull over because the cop had no basis to stop me" is generally a losing argument. Courts don't like to hear about how you had the opportunity to challenge government action and chose for strategic reasons not to do it. (And I suspect in any trial the government would point out both (a) how much more money Stars and Tilt made by evading the actions against processors rather than shutting down deposits and withdrawals and bringing a challenge and (b) that Stars and Tilt didn't want to subject their executives to US jurisdiction by bringing a challenge that would require them to attend a possible trial.)

If I were to bet on it, the bank fraud count is a big problem for Stars and Tilt.

If the DOJ says its money laundering its money laundering...there is 0 chance of these entities winning anything. They will lose massive amounts of money while being shut down. This is classic American Justice strong arm tactics. These businesses will simply come to an agreement with the DOJ and pay whatever fines they need too. Then they will ensure the US Govt has visibility to all funds from US banks and they will continue to take their cut.

But just because they claim money laundering charges doesnt mean it is from poker.

Does anyone with some kind of knowledge of this situation have an estimated time frame for this tragedy?

Haven't you heard? We have a representative government. No matter what the people want, our elected officials have to approve it. We can't just legalize what we want even if a large majority wanted to.

Vote people out you say? When was the last time a politician lied to get elected? They'll say darn near anything to get your vote. Then do as they please once elected, since they know what's good for you.