I did read that. Do you think the password wouldn't be given around? Yes, if the password is thrown around 2+2 the video will effectively be seen by all, but the video will have a different connotation as it was meant to be a private message.

That's not what this video looks like and if poker players see it that way, how do you think our opponents view it as? TBH, wearing an Orange Crush T-shirt would have been better because a PPA T-shirt indicates he did consider his dress before making the video and was too lazy to throw on a suit. No hate, just saying this is how it could be construed.

I'm curious about the following statement posted at http://www.pokerstars.com now that the FBI has seized it:

"Properties, including domain names, used in violation of 18 U.S.C. 1955 or involved in money laundering transactions are subject to forfeiture to the United States. (18 U.S.C. 981 & 1955(d))"

How does the U.S. have the right to steal a domain name? Are domain names even subject to U.S. jurisdiction? Aren't these domain names "international" domain names? Isn't poker legal in jurisdictions outside of the U.S.?

It almost seems like the U.S. is trying to enforce one of its most ridiculous laws (e.g., a ban on online poker) on everyone in the world. How is this possible?

RC

It's cute that you think that the purpose of most jobs is to make the world better.

I just took a quick look at 18 U.S.C. 981 and 1955(d). (See, e.g., http://law.onecle.com/uscode/18/981.html and http://law.onecle.com/uscode/18/1955.html). These sections of title 18 do not mention "domain names" anywhere. They appear to be talking only about physical property (e.g., property that can be seized by customs).

In other words, the FBI seems to have applied its own interpretation to these sections of 18 U.S.C., concluding that the phrase "property, real or personal" includes domain names.

Such an interpretation may be a stretch. (See, e.g., http://www.domainhandbook.com/property.html.)

RC

anyone know what non-us facing sites require as proof that someone has, in fact, relocated outside the us and can now play per the site's t&c's?

As a group us internet poker kids are generally intelligent, motivated (toward poker at least), and as a whole we have significant funding. I'm really suprised we haven't found a loophole ourselves yet. Just brainstorming as I sit by the pool drinking but since apparently playing play chips is ok would it be legal to have a site that people paid a membership to and the site gave freerolls for prizes? Like have a few different membership levels and the highers level you purchase the more freerolls you get into so you're basically purchasing buyins to tourneys but its technically just a higher level of membership.. or maybe I'm just drunk and that wouldn't work. Probably just drunk...

This is all just a catalyst to get things going. I think we all can agree that it will eventually get regulated and legalized. The horse is out of the barn.

Welcome to the blackout period.

this is awesome news!

would u sir, plz, forward this immediately to the president of the u.s. and the attorney general of the u.s.

also, plz forward this to full tilt and pstars management. i'm sure that these companies and their multimillionaire lawyer teams will find u're finding most helpful in their fight vs. the doj!

plz dont hesitate to keep us apprised of any new revelations from u're "quick looks" on the u.s. federal statutes.

Online Poker has already been approved in the District of Columbia. All local DC laws must go through Congressional review, and the DC online poker has been approved. DC lottery is working on the roll out now.

I played today, I'm a poker player I play every day. As long as one site will take my money I will play. There are more expensive hobbies, and if BODOG and can pay winners, I play poker if it take 1 year to cash out.

BTW I'll be playing tonight.

He didn't come off bad and i see no problem with the T-shirt, In fact It might look "fake" for a Youtube video if he was standing there in a suit and tie saying what he had to say.

After all its not like he was sitting in his underwear starring at his computer screen of a poker site that that now show the DOJ warning while caressing a half full pee bottle as a tear fell from his face....T-shirt seemed ok by me

I don't know the specific caselaw on this, but I know that these domain name seizures are common where a sufficient showing of illegal use is made. For instance, they have seized lots of child porn and copyright infringing websites.

I would suspect, given the number of times the feds have done this, that they are on pretty solid ground. Either it has been litigated or it is considered obvious.

CA may pass at some point, I doubt any poker player will object. BTW I played today and won 50bb, long live USA INTERNET POKER.

I'm not going to pretend to know anything about the law, but I will just take the opportunity to pass along someone else's opinion that the feds may not actually be on "solid ground."

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...indicted.shtml

Feds Seize Poker Websites; Founders Indicted
from the guilty-until-proven-innocent dept
It appears that the federal government has really fallen in love with its new found ability to simply seize whatever websites they don't like. The latest is that the FBI (not DHS this time) has seized the three largest online poker websites, PokerStars, Full Tilt Poker and Absolute Poker, and indicted the founders of those sites. Some have already been arrested with warrants out for the others. Because, you know, poker is destroying society or something. While at least this time it actually commenced legal actions in association with the seizures, the more the government does this, the more it's going to make sure this new favorite tool (domain seizures) gets shot down by the courts.

First of all, whether or not those sites are illegal is something of an open question. Back in 2006, as part of a bill to protect our ports and harbors (I'm not kidding), Congress passed a "ban" on online gambling. But it's been a pretty open question as to whether or not poker sites really applied. There are questions as to whether or not poker is a game of skill or chance, with at least one court saying that it was the former, and thus not necessarily "gambling."

On top of that, some in Congress have been working hard for a while to clarify that online poker is legal.

Even if you accept the idea that these sites are breaking the law -- which is a big open question -- is it really okay to simply seize the domains prior to an adversarial hearing? File charges, bring it to court, and have the government ask for an injunction, allowing the site operators to state the basics of their case. Seizing the domains seems like a massive government overreach (yet again).

Of course, the interesting thing to me is that this may get a lot more people interested in the federal government's new love of seizing domain names prior to any real due process. Perhaps not that many people are all that concerned when the issue was the "boring" question of copyright, but an awful lot of people play online poker, and they are unlikely to appreciate the seizures...

i like where your head is at, but this solves nothing for cash players.

They can track your location and I suppose that suffices. I was never asked to prove my country of residence in any of the major sites. Perhaps having a credit/debit card issued in the country you relocated to would make this easier.

the UIGEA was never truly voted on. it was put in the safe ports act in 2006 by that weasel bill frist. very few were going to vote against this bill. it was just backroom dealing plain and simple.

This is my first (and probably only) post in this forum.

I, like many, am in a bit of shock over this development. But ld like to offer a wider perspective like some here have.

Firstly, I am a net losing player over the years, though the past 6 months I have righted the ship and am in the 99.9% of all online tournament players for 2011. In 2009-2010 I deposited about $24,000 into stars and my balance is now $19,000 (even worse, it is about 10k in cash and $5,000 in tournament dollars which I was storing up for the SCOOP next month -so if players can withdraw funds I may still not be able to withdraw those). So it sure stings that I have clawed almost back to even and all of that money is sitting there, possibly unavailable. (I have never withdrawn any of my profits - only deposited and built my roll)

The reason for this post is I am kind of tired seeing all the people complain about 'Im a college kid who was making extra money on the side and this messes up my life' type comments. Firstly, for every college kid that is making decent money at poker THERE MUST BE about 5 or more who are losing money they can't afford. Poker is a micro-version of our leveraged financial system, where over time the money gets concentrated into fewer and fewer hands as its a zero sum game - worse there is higher rake in poker.

As physically stresssed as I am about my money, and going through withdrawal right now not being able to play all the weekend tourneys, I kind of view this as a positive development. Too many people are heavily addicted to poker - not only do they lose the other skills and knowledge which are going to be needed in a post fossil fuel world, but their brain gets higher and higher thresholds for stimulation - and eventually more coffee, alcohol etc when not playing poker just to feel normal will lead to anhedonia - the inability to feel pleasure. Of course this doesnt appply to the casual player, but having ubiquitous access to 24/7 casino is not healthy for our country/future.

Finally, (and this will be non-sensical to most reading), what just happened is a microcosm of what may happen to larger financial system in the coming years - i.e. our financial claims (what people THINK they own) in dollars, euros, yen etc cant possibly be paid back based on underlying natural resources - so we will have 'currency reform', where bank accounts etc become worthless overnight (it has happened dozens of times in history - just not in our 3 generations). The reaction to waking up and ones paper net worth has gone away but rest of world goes on is going to be very similar to what people have felt like last 24 hours.

Bottom line. Im not 'happy' about this development. But if I get my money out, Im sure my 40 hours a week will be better spent then sitting, getting sore back, fat, and developing deeper neural grooves. And knowing what USA faces in next decade, I assure you fewer addicts and fewer future addicts will at the margin be a positive thing. Im sure many will disagree but I write this is my opinion.

he needs to be on cnn, faux news, cnbc, or wherever..like right now. this is armageddon. yet this sap is broadcasting on utube as if he's in some dorm room talking about sunday's football games.

the ppa response to all of this has been garbage, including the high profile former senator.

Yeah I know and I'm a plo cash player anyway so it wouldn't help me either. But maybe ill just create the site for the mid and small stakes tourney guys and ill just get rich that way

Thanks! It's pretty amazing what you can learn by simply reading the statutes. For example, if I hadn't checked for myself, I might've accepted the FBI's assertion that the "property" discussed in 18 U.S.C. "includ[es] domain names." Interestingly, that's not what the cited sections say.

You raise a good point in that I've only spent a few minutes looking into this matter, and, while I am an attorney, I'm sure other attorneys have spent a lot more time researching and analyzing these issues. I'm sure my thoughts are not helpful to them.

RC

I was. Moved from London to New York and had to email scans of utility bills with my name on it to have the city changed.

amen.

not to pour on the hate but that vid release is laughable. at least fool us into pretending that more things are going on behind the scenes in order to further motivate more players....

Thanks, I needed a laugh today.

As much as I hope this is true, somehow I doubt it.

Well I'm sure some of the news networks will have stories about this DOJ action over the next weeks and months, and I'm sure the PPA will have a chance to appear on a few as an invited guest to give their side. Right now it's the weekend and if you live in the US, for the most part anyway, all news sort of stops. The cable shows will be back Monday and i bet they'll cove this a bit on CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, FOX and whatnot.....till then all we have are the morning news shows (which this will get a mention) and YouTube