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Full Tilt, UB and Pokerstars Domains SEIZED by the FBI - Principals Indicted - (Merged/updated) Full Tilt, UB and Pokerstars Domains SEIZED by the FBI - Principals Indicted - (Merged/updated)

04-16-2011 , 02:43 PM
Is anyone moving to another site such as Bodog, or the Merge network? Is it really safe to put money anywhere right now?
04-16-2011 , 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quartilho
LOOOOOOL
04-16-2011 , 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDanko
Is anyone moving to another site such as Bodog, or the Merge network? Is it really safe to put money anywhere right now?
Dear Poker Player,

We're sure you have heard about the US Federal government indictment of Full Tilt Poker, PokerStars, UB and Absolute Poker by now - read it!

Many members have contacted us already asking what rooms are the best for US players to play poker at now (and have the highest rakeback).

Carbon Poker 35% RakeBack + an Exclusive $10,000 Monthly Rake Chase

Cake Poker 33% RakeBack + $60,000 Rake Race and $1,000 Exclusive Freeroll

PlayersOnly Poker 35% RakeBack + $14,600 Rake Chase and $2,500 Freeroll

Cake Poker is technically the highest rakeback available due to the network using the dealt rakeback method, whereas Carbon and PlayersOnly are using the contributed rakeback method

This is not an add. I left out the sender but this was sent by a rakeback provider only hours after the notice went out.
04-16-2011 , 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Lingidiot
Casinos, Lotteries and Horse Racing are all heavily taxed and therefore are "acceptable" to the government.

Off Shore Internet Poker are not able to be taxed therefore are the work of the devil and must be wiped out to protect us.

So its not that one form of gambling is worse then another, just that one can be taxed and one cant.
It's not just taxation, and I really think some players don't appreciate all the implications of unregulated poker.

In addition to tax evasion, unregulated offshore poker means cheaters like russ hamilton and Chinese double or nothing colluders can't be caught and jailed and have their assets seized. It means that organized crime coulde use a poker site to launder money. It means that underage players can sometimes play. It means that states that have laws prohibiting gaming can't enforce them anymore.

There are lots of reasons not having to do with government greed why gaming has long been a strictly regulated industry. And we players benefit from those rules-- ask Doyle Brunson about whether a modern casino game or a Texas underground game 40 years ago is more honest.

Internet poker was always going to be regulated. Yesterday was ugly no doubt, but one of the reasons we needed and need a poker bill is that it could have prevented yesterday from happening. Without one, this was inevitable.
04-16-2011 , 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfulop
No doubt many US players who base their livelihood on playing online poker are outraged by what happened yesterday. And while it may not feel this way now, you have just got luckier than you ever though possible while playing the game itself. You have been given a true opportunity ... to go out into the world and apply your obvious talent and instincts and use it to build real value in the world .. and for yourself.

At the end of the day nothing is sadder than devoting your life's work to seeking out situations where you are sitting around a table with five-eight people stupider than yourself. No matter how smart you occur to yourself, this is not what real "smart people" do in this tough old world.

So while I'm sure there may be various froms of alienating hate speeches generated by this perspective ... just know it comes from a place that I'm sure you will arrive at later in your lives ... and say what you will .... what can't be argued is that there is always a "gift" in anything that happens that occurs at first blush as a "bad thing". Smart people look for that gift, and embrace it, everything else is just pointless ill will.

The gift here is both obvious and powerful .... you will have no choice now but to use what happened yesterday as your first step to taking your skills and talents and putting them to work to make the world a tiny bit better. And because you are talented enough to beat poker in the current climate, you will find that along the way you will become far wealthier than you ever would have been playing poker ... and over time you will look back on what happened here as the biggest suck out of your life.


My hat's off to the grinders that can make a living out of it.

I used to play in my spare time (I more or less work for a living) to have a little extra $$$.

This piece of thievery by the US gov't is helping two groups of people. The career minded prosecutors, and the degen losers who feed the winners.

I don't personally care to make the world a better place. People that do, usually F*** things up, much like the SDNY prosecutor. I'm happy living my life, and not destroying the planet or other peoples lives.

People who think like you, and want to help people improve themselves and the world (in your opinion), are the very thing that is wrong with the USA.
04-16-2011 , 02:53 PM
Could this be a case for the Supreme Court? It seems like the government's main argument is that Internet Poker is the same thing as Internet Gambling. I know its an age old argument, but it could get interesting seeing some MIT math professors go at it with the government on the issue.
04-16-2011 , 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by derada4
Full Tilt Poker Bans USA Players
By Dan Cypra - Apr 15th, 2011

The day just keeps getting worse for online poker players in the United States. Full Tilt Poker announced via a press release obtained by Poker News Daily that it will no longer accept real money action from U.S. players.

The statement from Full Tilt read in part, “Unfortunately, as a result of this action, Full Tilt Poker has decided that it must suspend real money play in the United States until this case is resolved. However, Full Tilt Poker will continue to provide peer-to-peer online poker services outside of the United States.”

This afternoon’s indictment from the U.S. Department of Justice names Ray Bitar and Nelson Burtnick of Full Tilt Poker, with the former commenting in the site’s press statement, “I am surprised and disappointed by the government’s decision to bring these charges. I look forward to Mr. Burtnick’s and my exoneration.”

According to the charges levied by the U.S. Government, Bitar, Burtnick, and nine other defendants “arranged for the money received from U.S. gamblers to be disguised as payments to hundreds of non-existent online merchants purporting to sell merchandise such as jewelry and golf balls. Of the billions of dollars in payment transactions that the Poker Companies tricked U.S. banks into processing, approximately one-third or more of the funds went directly to the Poker Companies as revenue through the rake charged to players on almost every poker hand played online.”

In an article posted on PocketFives.com, players were irate at the news that the two largest online poker sites in the industry – PokerStars and Full Tilt – had vacated the real money market in the United States. One member wrote, “Man I’m pissed and I only play for some fun and a little extra income, I feel for you guys (and girls) who grind for a living and don’t know wtf is happening and trying to figure what you’re going to do next.”

One of the only Full Tilt Poker pros speaking out on Friday was Tom “durrrr” Dwan, who tried to put readers’ minds at ease if they were concerned about cashing out from either of the two former USA giants. Dwan posted on Twitter, “I wouldn’t be worried about getting paid. Might take a little time. Good luck if ur not on FTP/PS.”

To that end, a statement posted on Full Tilt’s website assured customers that cashouts were proceeding as normal: “All players who were affected by the current situation have had their funds returned to their accounts and all new withdrawal requests are processing normally. We assure all players on Full Tilt Poker that your online playing experience will not change and that you will be able to both deposit and withdraw funds as needed. Your money remains safe, secure, and accessible at all times.”

http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/full-t...players-18786/
Sorry am I misreading this? We will be able to withdraw funds???? Do they mean after the case is resolved?
04-16-2011 , 02:57 PM
Reposting this here since it got moved in NVG and buried in a thread of a completely different subject.

I have read through all the post on what happened yesterday, understand the UIGEA and read over the indictment. My question is this, if this is all over the UIGEA as I understand it, it is about money being put on and taken off. It is not illegal for US players to PLAY the way I understand.
So, pokerstars says in the new popup that not to worry our money is safe (although not holding my breath on getting it soon), why shouldn't we be able to play on money that is already on there, even though we cant deposit or withdrawal (for now I hope).
For instance, I have a few thousand on PS that I keep as a bankroll anyway, couldnt I still be playing on it till the day came that I either go busto or can cash out. My main reason for wondering is cause I am over 80% to supernova and would still be able to work on that without depositing or cashing out.
I just dont see anything in the law, indictment, or press releases saying that we cant play, just move money.
Anyone have an answer for this?
04-16-2011 , 02:59 PM
How ever un-popular this may sound seriously wake the **** up you bunch of passive ****ing idiots.

Stop sitting there getting into the bull**** illusion about how ''oh,we should of voted this or that or this'' Your vote count's for absolutely fk all, are you seriously still believing you have a vote?

Corporations run your country, just like they run the rest of the world.

This post is mainly for Americans as you have a chance of revolution, you have the right to bear arms (for now) take a ****ing stand, there is 300 million of you, fight for your rights. Stop being bitched around by a hand full of rich corporate stooges and get your human rights back.

I'm seriously so upset with this whole situation, I am from England and i really feel for every single one of you who has been affected by the take down.

It;s time to realise you've been living a lie, that you country is ran by terrorists and the war on terror is against you, not some beardy man in cave but you as a citizen of the USA and a citizen of the planet.

Get educating yourselves, get wise to it. Don't let these ****ers rule you. We out number these scum bags millions to one, really start going for it now people. Get rid of the false beliefs you have in your once great country and just accept that you're now in a full dictatorship. The rest of the world sees it, why can't you?

Power to you all, I said previously I'm not trying to cause hysteria but you need to stop being shafted by your terrorist scum bag government and take your rights and freedoms back before it's too late.
04-16-2011 , 03:01 PM
Feel gangbanged by the US Gov, I pay 18k in taxes, everything in my bank account, then have checks that I cannot cash now, and my funds are frozen, thanks Gov, Im getting good at taking on up the ass
04-16-2011 , 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdude
It's not just taxation, and I really think some players don't appreciate all the implications of unregulated poker.

In addition to tax evasion, unregulated offshore poker means cheaters like russ hamilton and Chinese double or nothing colluders can't be caught and jailed and have their assets seized. It means that organized crime coulde use a poker site to launder money. It means that underage players can sometimes play. It means that states that have laws prohibiting gaming can't enforce them anymore.

There are lots of reasons not having to do with government greed why gaming has long been a strictly regulated industry. And we players benefit from those rules-- ask Doyle Brunson about whether a modern casino game or a Texas underground game 40 years ago is more honest.

Internet poker was always going to be regulated. Yesterday was ugly no doubt, but one of the reasons we needed and need a poker bill is that it could have prevented yesterday from happening. Without one, this was inevitable.
online poker is regulated, it just so happens that regulation is carried out somewhere other than america.
04-16-2011 , 03:03 PM
Ummm....yes. If all you can do is play and never move money, then you will 1) have to rely on non-US players to feed your winnings, and 2) never be able to cash out, ever, which kind of negates the reason for playing in the first place.

Really, I don't understand the point of your question. For all intents and purposes, playing on Facebook poker would give you the same end.
04-16-2011 , 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdude
It's not just taxation, and I really think some players don't appreciate all the implications of unregulated poker.

In addition to tax evasion, unregulated offshore poker means cheaters like russ hamilton and Chinese double or nothing colluders can't be caught and jailed and have their assets seized. It means that organized crime coulde use a poker site to launder money. It means that underage players can sometimes play. It means that states that have laws prohibiting gaming can't enforce them anymore.

There are lots of reasons not having to do with government greed why gaming has long been a strictly regulated industry. And we players benefit from those rules-- ask Doyle Brunson about whether a modern casino game or a Texas underground game 40 years ago is more honest.

Internet poker was always going to be regulated. Yesterday was ugly no doubt, but one of the reasons we needed and need a poker bill is that it could have prevented yesterday from happening. Without one, this was inevitable.
You're right. Regulated gaming benefits the players. However, if the gov't couldn't get their cut, they would be more than happy to shut it down. Regulated gaming has no benefit to the gov't if not for the money.
04-16-2011 , 03:06 PM
U said it. I vaguely remember reciting something as a kid in school about "land of the free" haha. What a ****ing joke. Our government is horrible, taxation is ridiculous especially in the state im from. You cant smoke where u want, they will try take away restaruants they deem unhealthy, tell us when and where we can take a ****, and how to spend our money that we earn. God bless America and God bless Corporate Greed and Government Strongarming
04-16-2011 , 03:06 PM
well it says on PS that to rest assure our funds our safe, implying that at some point in the future we will be able to cashout somehow, so until then couldn't we build upon it? Sorry if I wasnt clear, certainly not talking about playing for fun, just dont see anywhere that says we cant play, just currently cannot move money
04-16-2011 , 03:08 PM
while i sympathize with americans over this situation and am pretty pissed off myself, i cant help by giggle at the over use of the words "tyranny" and "arms" and "revolution" the last 24 hours. lol americanaments

op, calm down
04-16-2011 , 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfulop
No doubt many US players who base their livelihood on playing online poker are outraged by what happened yesterday. And while it may not feel this way now, you have just got luckier than you ever though possible while playing the game itself. You have been given a true opportunity ... to go out into the world and apply your obvious talent and instincts and use it to build real value in the world .. and for yourself.

At the end of the day nothing is sadder than devoting your life's work to seeking out situations where you are sitting around a table with five-eight people stupider than yourself. No matter how smart you occur to yourself, this is not what real "smart people" do in this tough old world.

So while I'm sure there may be various froms of alienating hate speeches generated by this perspective ... just know it comes from a place that I'm sure you will arrive at later in your lives ... and say what you will .... what can't be argued is that there is always a "gift" in anything that happens that occurs at first blush as a "bad thing". Smart people look for that gift, and embrace it, everything else is just pointless ill will.

The gift here is both obvious and powerful .... you will have no choice now but to use what happened yesterday as your first step to taking your skills and talents and putting them to work to make the world a tiny bit better. And because you are talented enough to beat poker in the current climate, you will find that along the way you will become far wealthier than you ever would have been playing poker ... and over time you will look back on what happened here as the biggest suck out of your life.
You are ******ed. The whole point of being an American is that we can do whatever the **** we want.

And in case you haven't realized, there are people who've made millions of dollars from playing poker. An amount of money, at an age of twenty-something, that they'd never have amassed in their entire working careers. I can tell you right now if I managed to become a multi-millionaire like some of the pre-UIGEA folks did, I'd be doing a hell of a lot more for the world with my millions than I ever could produce in my entire working career plus whatever I would've done with the money I made should I have worked.

But again, that's beside the point. America isn't a cesspool of working drones suited to only "build real value" using their "obvious talent and instinct". You want that? Then go to ****ing China.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobTheDuck
Theory: The Feds have shut down the sites to cause mass withdrawals, which will allow them to easily find the accounts that Stars & Tilt use for conducting "illegal" bank transfers.
They already know all this. Any idiot could've discovered this at any time. Aside from that, FT isn't even allowing withdrawals at the moment. PS allowed me to request an eCheck yesterday, but I doubt it even gets processed. It's going to be a long time before we see our rolls IMO.

I waited about 8 months when NETeller money got seized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Warlord25
Hello Everyone.

Glad to see you all.

I'm not a FBI agent, don't worry.

Edjumication START file 221:

4 Men have done this to you(all 308,000,000 of you).
There names are Jim Leach, Robert Goodlatte, Bill Frist and Jon Kyl.

They are all Republican.

Stop voting Republican.

Pokerstars shouldn't be risking your safety, that is immoral. Pokerstars should not be risking your livelyhood(no matter small) because of their bad behavoir, that is irresponsible and immoral.

4 Men should not be able to effect the lives of est. 300,000 of active US poker players or the 308,000,000 people before that, that is madness.

The Chinese government should also not be stopping it's population from playing poker, that is madness.

Why do people do such evil things, well, it's because they are miserable, and they want everyone to experience the same miserable lives they have. A miserable life is created on their own or by their own limitations, the problems come when that they think that what they experience is what everyone else experiences, this of course is not true. People are at all different stages of development. There is a thread(and a threat) that runs through our society from people who do not want(or cannot) enjoy life, and don't want anyone else to either.

Don't worry too much.

A quote from Mahatma Gandhi (Mahatma means great soul):

"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall — think of it, always."

Yeah. That was awesome.

Men that don't want you to have fun. Explains why people can't grow and use(like rub all over your body in the nude) all naturally occurring earth species, "TOO MUCH FUN" they say. Matters of sex are a part of it too. Prositution. Gays. So what should you do about it, write your Congress Person? Maybe. I don't think they care, how can they when they have so many emails and phone calls, basically, they can't deal with their responsiblities. They should be, and should have the time to talk to and respond to everyone they are required to. But look, every company is like that, that is why you get so many "no reponce"s in our society.

Why not go after the handful of men who created the financial mess? Online poker companies are eazy. That is also why police go after drug users instead of violent criminals.

For God's sake!...The handful of men who created the finacial mess not only effected the 308,000,000 but the whole world! A few men! That is madness. And they are sniffin' coke and with a hooker right now, and how are you doing right now?

No one has the right to take away your rights to freedom. And not because of any law written on paper, it's just common sense.

It has been fun reading your comments.

Thank your 2p2 forums.

Good bye.
QFT

Post of the ****ing year.
04-16-2011 , 03:12 PM
just for lols.
i want to lighten the mood, not offend

Spoiler:


please continue
04-16-2011 , 03:12 PM
yeah, i dont understand why stars is blocking us players for the same reason as op. Hell my one a year vacation to mexico i would cash out.
04-16-2011 , 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kikadell
while i sympathize with americans over this situation and am pretty pissed off myself, i cant help by giggle at the over use of the words "tyranny" and "arms" and "revolution" the last 24 hours. lol americanaments

op, calm down
Bro, you can tell me to calm down all you want. I've been telling people about this for the past 2 years, no one listened ever. I said stars and the major sites would be siezed by the FED and on will come internet cencorship etc etc. America has the chance to really rise up, your country can bear arms, ours can't. All we do is watch tv and drink tea.
04-16-2011 , 03:22 PM
Thanks for posting this logically sound, well thought-out harangue. Its benefit to this forum and the community as a whole cannot be overstated. We'll get right on it.
04-16-2011 , 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggger5x
You seem like a great poster and 2p2er, but Skall, TE, PX and whoever else wants to make this statement has my full support to do so and I think you need to honestly keep your mouth shut.


I am quite disturbed at how much abuse they have taken over the years for what they have done for us and the people who naysayed and ignored this issue need to be held accountable for their negligence.


I was chastised and given infractions for promoting PPA efforts on several 2p2 forums.


Too put it bluntly, they did tell you so. (not necessarily you, but twoplustwo as a whole)
I argue that saying "I told you so" is blatant ego stroking and doesn't usually help matters. I appreciate your bluntness, and I have a ton of respect for posters you mention. A few more points though.........

1. Just because some of us didn’t do as much as we can, doesn't mean this still wouldn’t have happened. So it’s childish to say "told you so". Regardless there was going to be a black out period and some changes.

2. My original post right before that was literally asking "what can I do to help". So you want me to keep my mouth shut, I don't get it? Kind of an aggressively rude thing for you to say, no?
04-16-2011 , 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymousdegen
All we do is watch tv and drink tea.
lulz. Although I agree with your overall sentiment on paper, in reality it doesn't hold much water. Life is nowhere near bad enough for the majority in the US to spark a revolution of any kind. Not saying it won't ever head in that direction eventually..I'm just saying that, currently, things aren't too shabby for the majority, and last time I checked, online poker players are definitely not part of the majority in the US. (I wish that wasn't the case)
04-16-2011 , 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tankelton
online poker is regulated, it just so happens that regulation is carried out somewhere other than america.
No. Compare it to international horse racing pools. You can bet on Australian races, but that's because if a race fixer turns up in EITHER country there is an effective system of punishment and asset seizure.

We will eventually get that with online poker. But we didn't have it in the last decade. The Isle of Man, some Canadian Indian tribe, the governments of China and Russia, etc. didn't offer effective regulation.
04-16-2011 , 03:31 PM
No money in D.O.J everyones solid!

      
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