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12-13-2015 , 10:40 PM
When it comes down to it people love to watch Conor fight and there are fighters that would be way more interesting as well as more marketable to see Conor face than Aldo.
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12-13-2015 , 11:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubbrband
lol at Aldo "clearing out the division"
Here's the top ten before 194
1 Conor McGregor
2 Frankie Edgar
3 Chad Mendes
4 Ricardo Lamas
5 Max Holloway
6 Cub Swanson
7 Charles Oliveira
8 Jeremy Stephens
9 Dennis Bermudez
10 Nik Lentz
not to mention Anthony Pettis
The next in line are people he already beat. He beat 4 out of the top 6 and was already fighting number one last night. Faber at 145 would likely be high on the list too. If the fights on Friday and Saturday went the other way it was potentially going to be Mendes a third time after beating him twice before Holloway or lower.

Even in that blog post about him pulling out a big part of the subject was how the number one contenders were losing their shots because they were getting beat by others in the meantime. He was a pretty convincing end boss who had the top contenders puzzled and regrouping for second and third chances. There is likely an issue with his training camps causing injuries, but I still don't buy that negates his record of beating the top of the division, some multiple times already. Conor may have figured him out, but he was dominant as can be before that.
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12-13-2015 , 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Truant
So when the match makers are determining rematches, a major factor is how many times someone pulled out of fights over their career? I did not know that. Any other times this has played a major role immediately after they showed up and made weight?

Barao missed weight and demolished the main event of a card that became a black eye on the promotion and got Dana red-faced at the press and bloggers. He got an immediate SECOND chance at a rematch.

Maybe you are right but I think money is the only factor, major or otherwise.
No he didn't, TJ fought Joe Soto and Barao fought Mitch Gagnon.

Unless you mean an immediate rematch after they each fought someone else, but obv that's a stretch of definitions.
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12-13-2015 , 11:32 PM
Just a passing observation but it's interesting that Dana won't let Holm fight anyone before Rousey is ready in July for a rematch - 8 months between fights - but won't give a rematch to Aldo who won 7 UFC title fights in a row and had not been beaten professionally in almost 10 years.
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12-13-2015 , 11:35 PM
Barao not getting the immediate rematch was an example of the right call. He got embarrassed for nearly 25 minutes before getting finished. Not a ton of reason to expect another fight to be any different.

Edit: ****, good call Wes. Forgot about him passing out in the tub
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12-13-2015 , 11:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT
Barao not getting the immediate rematch was an example of the right call. He got embarrassed for nearly 25 minutes before getting finished. Not a ton of reason to expect another fight to be any different.

Barao did get an immediate rematch than he got sick making the weight cut and soto replaced him last minute
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12-13-2015 , 11:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by denks
Just a passing observation but it's interesting that Dana won't let Holm fight anyone before Rousey is ready in July for a rematch - 8 months between fights - but won't give a rematch to Aldo who won 7 UFC title fights in a row and had not been beaten professionally in almost 10 years.
White's a fairly obvious douche tho.

He's got to do what makes his company the most money (holding the Holm rematch, letting Conor do whatever he wants to do, etc), but in so doing he ****s on a lot of good fighters who are seemingly decent people.
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12-13-2015 , 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgerIrish
No he didn't, TJ fought Joe Soto and Barao fought Mitch Gagnon.

Unless you mean an immediate rematch after they each fought someone else, but obv that's a stretch of definitions.
Oh yeah. Forgot about Gagnon, but Soto was the last minute replacement for him and he still got the next planned title shot after that monumental screw up. The point is, they were not looking to put other contenders in front of him.
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12-13-2015 , 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT
White's a fairly obvious douche tho.

He's got to do what makes his company the most money (holding the Holm rematch, letting Conor do whatever he wants to do, etc), but in so doing he ****s on a lot of good fighters who are seemingly decent people.
Idk, I think letting Holm fight Tate is the best case scenario unless someone gets injured as a result.
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12-13-2015 , 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubbrband
Idk, I think letting Holm fight Tate is the best case scenario unless someone gets injured as a result.
I assume the thinking is that the drawing power of WMMA is RR=yes, JJ=maybe, everyone else=no, so he's only interested in having the RR rematch.

It's really in the response that's most telling. Holm is asking to fight. She's your champion who just embarrassed your previous champ in dominant fashion. Instead of entertaining it, he mocks her trainer who'd said she'd like to fight again.

Conor is asking to do a bunch of crazy ****, after flash KO'ing a top 5 all-time fighter, including snap moving up a weight class to challenge for the belt and Dana can barely form sentences with so much of Conor's dick in his mouth.

Conor is unquestionably a bigger draw, and maybe he's right on WMMA, so protecting that rematch at all costs is correct. None of that excuses the way he acquiesces to the draws and disrespects other fighters. Good for business, but a dick move.
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12-14-2015 , 12:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubbrband
Idk, I think letting Holm fight Tate is the best case scenario unless someone gets injured as a result.
if Rousey was ready to go in a reasonable time then I don't see a reason why a rematch shouldn't be on. What gets me is Dana isn't letting Holm defend her title for an unreasonable timeframe. Same with his attitude to CM, guy is a good fighter but let's be real here, he has won a single title fight and never defended the title yet Dana fawns over him as if he is one of the greatest to ever set foot in the octagon. Seems that gone are the days of fights being created for an evenly matched spectacle of skill and in their place is emerging a WWE-lite where out of ring personalities reign supreme. Has there been a change in who makes the matches relatively recently to cause this?
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12-14-2015 , 12:02 AM
RB is correct on the HH/Tate fight being best imo.

If HH wins, UFC 200 is still Ronda shot at redemption (lol). If Tate wins, you have an easy road to put the title back on RR at 200, then a rematch with HH.
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12-14-2015 , 12:11 AM
Dana doesn't want to legitimise Holm's win by having her successfully defend. Put her back in against Rousey preferably in a timeframe where Rousey can improve her striking and if RR wins then he can claim it was just a lucky fight where she was out of sorts.
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12-14-2015 , 12:13 AM
Good guy that Dana
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12-14-2015 , 01:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by denks
if Rousey was ready to go in a reasonable time then I don't see a reason why a rematch shouldn't be on. What gets me is Dana isn't letting Holm defend her title for an unreasonable timeframe. Same with his attitude to CM, guy is a good fighter but let's be real here, he has won a single title fight and never defended the title yet Dana fawns over him as if he is one of the greatest to ever set foot in the octagon. Seems that gone are the days of fights being created for an evenly matched spectacle of skill and in their place is emerging a WWE-lite where out of ring personalities reign supreme. Has there been a change in who makes the matches relatively recently to cause this?
This is exactly my concern. The dream is Cowboy vs Conor in that regard, but neither one has come close to what Aldo accomplished in his career yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubbrband
Has a lot to do with money, but it also has to do with compay guys like Conor, Fabre getting what they want and less marketable harder to deal with guys like Aldo less likely to get what they want.
Sure. But it mostly isn't about what any of the fighters want, or giving good employees perks, it is about whether selling fights to the most new/casual fans is more important than what people who have been buying the ppv for years are interested in because they like fighters based on MMA, not marketability in the USA. White, English speaking fighters are easier to deal with and sell more fights. If they are good looking or articulate then trifecta. Conor, sage, pvz, rousey, Uriah.

If they can deny Aldo a rematch because it isn't interesting to the broader public, then why not feed Sage cans and drop him into a title fight when the timing is best for him? That story line will thrill people. Protect the poster boys and girls? That's good business too.

Then you have the added drama factor they are just beginning to exploit at a whole new level due to Conor being so gifted at it.They are already playing up the Faber/dillishaw broken friendship thing. Uriah even mentioned the rocky 5 movie plot. If it stays a cute subplot, fine, but I won't be shocked if it's all we hear about, see interviews about etc for the lead up to the fight if it happens. Cruz is steady talking smack to TJ about changing camps...who the **** cares? This Russian hammer dude trying to emulate Conor's crap talk...Rockhold and Weidmans awkward attempts... The more important that crap becomes the less important humble, hardworking, talented fighters who can't play the role become, and honestly it's already getting more boring than a terrible translation of Portuguese fighter saying they repsect their opponent. Would GSP or Silva have a chance in a world where a ten year undefeated champ is of no importance compared to who has the best mouthpiece?

Meh. I'll still watch.
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12-14-2015 , 01:07 AM
I also don't really care to see another Conor Jose fight because I've never been so sick of a fight promo before.
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12-14-2015 , 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubbrband
I also don't really care to see another Conor Jose fight because I've never been so sick of a fight promo before.
I want to see if he is better than Aldo for more than one exchange...I just really want to see who is better. If Conor beats him again he will become everything he says he is to me. .

Aldo seemed like he was shook. Conor was brilliant, he knew exactly what to do to and executed it, and maybe really is that smart all the time. I hope so because that will be phenomenal to witness. I truely feel like beating Aldo again proves that more than any other fight right now. It's not answered yet.

Another example is I still don't feel like we know Weidman is a better fighter than Silva was when he won those fights. He very may be, but it was two strange endings. One where AS was not being serious enough, and a freak accident. What Weidman did since those fights was impressive, but it doesn't match what AS did as champ so to me, it's not answered and never will be.

That matters more to me than the promos.
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12-14-2015 , 01:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Truant
I want to see if he is better than Aldo for more than one exchange...I just really want to see who is better. If Conor beats him again he will become everything he says he is to me. .

Aldo seemed like he was shook. Conor was brilliant, he knew exactly what to do to and executed it, and maybe really is that smart all the time. I hope so because that will be phenomenal to witness. I truely feel like beating Aldo again proves that more than any other fight right now. It's not answered yet.

Another example is I still don't feel like we know Weidman is a better fighter than Silva was when he won those fights. He very may be, but it was two strange endings. One where AS was not being serious enough, and a freak accident. What Weidman did since those fights was impressive, but it doesn't match what AS did as champ so to me, it's not answered and never will be.

That matters more to me than the promos.
but you're a hardcore, you're watching no matter what

this is just like RR v Tate, they're big now - time to move on

CM v Edgar or v 155 and winner of Aldo/Edgar after makes all the sense in the world

get out of here w/ Mendes at this point and Max is in vs the next challenger at 145 as an eliminator for the fight after next for Conor imo
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12-14-2015 , 01:35 AM
Pretty sick what he plans to do, Anderson made pot shots at 205 and evone else moved classes based on seemingly permanent moves/failure at previous weight classes that I can think of
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12-14-2015 , 02:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Truant
.....
Would GSP or Silva have a chance in a world where a ten year undefeated champ is of no importance compared to who has the best mouthpiece?

Meh. I'll still watch.
Interesting you ask that, I was going to use GSP as an example to make that exact point myself. Amazing fighter with little charisma outside the ring, would he have ever been given his chance in the current era? Towards the end of GSP's reign was where we started seeing out-of-ring personalities trumping skill. Fighters like Sonnen who got a title shot against Jones after being stopped in the second in his previous fight. How does someone get an immediate title shot in a different weight class after losing his previous fight? Same for Diaz, got a shot at the title coming off a loss. UFC used to differentiate itself from the farce of boxing promotion by making fights happen that should happen. These days the UFC is just picking up where the boxing promoters left off.
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12-14-2015 , 04:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by denks
Interesting you ask that, I was going to use GSP as an example to make that exact point myself. Amazing fighter with little charisma outside the ring, would he have ever been given his chance in the current era? Towards the end of GSP's reign was where we started seeing out-of-ring personalities trumping skill. Fighters like Sonnen who got a title shot against Jones after being stopped in the second in his previous fight. How does someone get an immediate title shot in a different weight class after losing his previous fight? Same for Diaz, got a shot at the title coming off a loss. UFC used to differentiate itself from the farce of boxing promotion by making fights happen that should happen. These days the UFC is just picking up where the boxing promoters left off.
Sorry but if you're fighting in the UFC, outside the ring is just as much a part of your job as inside. If for whatever reason people don't like watching you fight, you're doing something wrong. If other fighters are jumping you for big fights because that's what people want to see, they're doing their job better than you. No matter what, if you are truly dominant, you will eventually get your shot and if it's not about the money when you fight then you'll get your chance if you really deserve it. If you fighting IS about the money, then you need to make people interested. When you look at a fighter like Mighty Mouse (who I think is one of the best fighters of all time) he is absurdly dominant in every fight and no one gives a **** and no one watches. He doesn't care that he makes less than he should, he just loves being the champ. But if you put someone like Conor is his body, he would be a superstar with the casual audience. If you want to get places and make money, you have to sell yourself to your audience, and if you don't, you have no one to blame but yourself because the UFC is gonna go where the money is.
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12-14-2015 , 04:23 AM
Eh...CM fully deserved his title shot; it was a fight people wanted to see; and he knocked the other guy out in 13 seconds when he eventually showed up.

Aldo needs a good performance because his last two fights have been poor to varying degrees. If he beats Edgar let's say and White / McGregor are running from a rematch you can start complaining then imo.
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12-14-2015 , 04:29 AM
Has anyone said CM didn't deserve his title shot?
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12-14-2015 , 05:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by denks
Has anyone said CM didn't deserve his title shot?
A bazillion people did.
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12-14-2015 , 05:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by denks
Has anyone said CM didn't deserve his title shot?
JT seems to be arguing itt he should have fought Edgar first and that he 'skipped the queue' somehow. And all over the place there was lots of 'it's too soon, Aldo will sort out his cough for him' commentary during the build up.

Richard Tanner posted yesterday that the 'assumption would be CM loses easily at 155'. There is a lack of respect there, but I'm not sure why - every test has been passed with flying colours thus far.
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