Winning SCOOPS sure beats O8 HT bragging rights (neither of which I know much about but I'm just sayin').


It's not a choice you can make though. One is very hard to achieve, the other IS impossible because the conditions aren't there to make it happen.


I would think that there are other examples, but I'm going to stick with thanparris. Since early '11 - when he started playing a lot of O8 - he's made close to $180k, just for O8, just MTTs, just on Stars. His biggest score on Stars, in the $530 recently, was for $10k. While that's a great score, that's not a major. He's been winning consistently, steadily. Again, he plays on other sites as well, so who knows how much he's made on O8 MTTs alone, over the past 3 and a half years.


You don't see him going through major cold spells either.


Of course, he's one of very few to be able to do that; you rarely hear about him by comparison to how often we hear/read about the top HT players.

I agree with what you're saying here. If a person hates MTTs, why play if don't enjoy them. Personally, I suck at cash games, and likely because of that, I hate them. I would guess that O8 cash games vs all of the other O8 variants, are best long term, but again, I really don't know.


I wasn't talking about HT, vs cash, vs other O8 SNGs, vs MTTs, though. Just where there is more money to be made (between MTTs and HTs), and I firmly believe grinders/regulars are better off with MTTs over HTs in the long run. Who knows, maybe in a year, the HT field doubles/triples, there are better bonuses/rewards specifically for them, and the games are as soft as butter. I don't see it happening though.

bioods point was that if someone wanted to and put in the volume it is perfectly plauseable to make 100k.. i do agree with this somewhat but ud have to have like no downsings n make a ****load of that in rake back.

but it not that hard for some players to be making 50k + a year if they put in the volume.

if the $100+ games actually got going some of the better players could easy make 100k a year in rake back going for SNE.... just sayin.

as far as making 100k+ in mtt, theres a lot of luck in volved as there is in all mtt. at some point ur gunna have ato bink a big score to get that 100k unless the like the best player in the world n play like 7 days a week. not saying its not possible but probs only 1-2 players that could consistantly do it year after year where as i bet most people in the forum could make 50+ a year inluding rake back if they actually botherd there arse to play 200-300 sng a day.

I dont know where people got the idea that you wouldnt be able to get in the volume. I guess it depends on what time zone you live in but for me I get up at 8-9 et everyday and usually start playing at around 12 and Im pretty sure even during summer months with world cup going on I could always get 10+ tables of hypers going at any point during the day. I played a session at 10 et last night and was able to play 10+games.

The only player I know that would be able to make 100k a year playing O8 mtts in terms of EV is trelskig but not many are going to be sick enough to play the volume he can. Playing on multiple sites is a real pain. I have done it for most of the year. Themanparris has not made 100k per year playing O8 mtts. He has less than 130k profit since 2011 on stars. Im sure he plays and has won on other sites as well but 100k per year seems highly unlikely.

If someone like trelskig played hyper turbos he would probably play 120k games per year. Even bokkie Im sure would have played a ton more hyper games this year if he didnt have the scoop scores. I made like a 1$ per game last year with rb while running 5k+ under ev. If I had trelskigs work ethic Im sure I could make 100k playing hypers a lot easier than mtts and it wouldnt require having 0 life which mtts would.

Depending on how next month goes maybe Ill attempt at 50k profit from sngs in the last 6 months of the year. Considering how bad I have ran at the hypers I have played this year it seems quite doable. I wouldnt be playing any 10 hr days to do it either.

I wish I could understand the source of this pervasive hubris.

So you play your 120K HTs in a calender year - you are guaranteed to make ~ $1/game and so > $100K. Thing is when you start to look a bit closer, to make $1 + / game, you are going to have to play reasonable ($15 +) stakes. At reasonable stakes, most of the competition are regs and play relatively long stints.

So what we are left with is a table full of regs, playing 24/7 and earning > $100K/year. Anyone seen the flaw with this logic yet? Ah yes, could it be that at any given point, only 33% of players are winning? And therefore 67% are losing? And so if biood, juicy, bokkie, wadzon, hun, johnnie, angri, premove, bull, jani, epercori and whomever else are all making these huge dollars from this easy HT game - WHO IS LOSING???

Stop being so ****ing arrogant. You need a heck of a lot of help to win a succession of HTs over an extended period and it has NOTHING to do with how you play it (assuming players are of roughly equal ability, which they are). Basically you need to be winning at least one hand all-in every 2 minutes (assuming 1-table, jump to 10-tables you average one all-in scoop every 12 seconds LOLOL).

In an MTT, depending on your exact position and structure, ONE scoop per HOUR is often sufficient to make an FT. Of course you have to avoid losing hands, make the odd steal but most importantly of all, you need to learn where your ****ing fold button is and how to play post-flop.

It goes without saying that you also need luck to win MTTs but the pertinent fact is that you need SKILL to win slow-blind MTTs, it's a pre-requisite. Nada bar being a russian luckbox is pre-requisite to winning a HT, THEREFORE, wait for it, better players should do much better and prefer MTTs over HTs - only a serious LOLtard would even attempt to equate the 2 or postulate a year of > average running vs a mostly reg field to accrue $100K/year in HTs, inc rakeback or otherwise.

OH and if you play 120K HTs a year, let's look at that time commitment, shall we?

So let's assume perfect conditions and that we are perpetually playing 10 tables simultaneously. For ease we will just say we are playing 12,000 HTs/year.

So, we are going to assume each game is a median game and obviously as you are all such talented winners you will go deep - i.e. each game lasts about 12 mins.

That means we are committing 12,000*12 = 144,000 mins = 2400 hours.

Let's assume we take 2 weeks off a year but work every other day God sends us.

That means an average working week of 48 hours under OPTIMAL conditions, assuming full participation and zero lag or down time.

Hmm. So maybe after you have finished talking **** about how it's possible for you all to make $100K/year from HTs, you can finish talking **** about how much more time efficient HTs are and how the $/hr is so much higher.

****ing deluded LOLtards. Just close your eyes, keep shoving and hope your rakeback papers over the cracks.

I dont get whats so hard to understand. I average 60 games per hour when I play hypers so 120 000 games would be 2000 hours not that I said that would be needed to make 100k profit. Most players playing hypers have pokertrackers that give you a pretty good idea of what your hourly in the game is if you ran at neutral ev. I have played some hypers recently and the games dont seem to be any tougher since I stopped playing them. Im not even hating on mtts. I play them every day. Im just saying in terms of ev your hourly is going to be a lot higher if you are good at hypers compared to good at mtts.

I got the idea from biood1.

He is right about them not running 24/7 but there is still about a 12hr period everyday where they run pretty consistently.

5 players can be winners ----in fact all $1/game winners @ $15 HTsngs figuring rakeback at just 28%.

the ROI(not inclusive of rakeback) for each winner being 5.67%
while the ROI(not inclusive of rakeback) for the loser is -52%


its pretty simple math.

and since you almost always misinterpret what people post, i'm not commenting about the skill or lack of skill of any player etc. just that what you posted and i quoted is most certainly wrong. the 33% winners 66% losers is only true for a single game and not for any multiple of games.

If 'most' people in the forum could make $50k w/RB per year, with it being so easy and all, then the best O8 players suddenly come out of the woodwork to fall into the piles of money, and like Quantum was saying, who's losing?

100k in mtts would be like 200k in buyins for someone having a 50% ROI. Seems less realistic to me than achieving it with hypers. If you are lucky to cash big in an event of a series it's not really what we are talking about.

I chimed in because biood1 made the claim quoted above. I have a very hard time believing that the Top-10 MTT regulars in '14 won't make more than the top HT regular w/RB this year. I could be wrong, and I'm okay with being wrong.


The $100k figure came into the discussion, but it was (I thought) about which format would a regular/grinder be better off playing in the long run. Not about some barrier.


I went with pokerprolabs to come up with that figure for themanparris - not considering that they probably don't include rebuys.

I agree with this if someone like Bryan Kenny wins, seeing how he doesn't play O8 outside of the odd bigger event. Or some losing/slightly winning player gets some big score to save his year.


But what about when someone like Omahaha wins, are we saying that really shouldn't count? Don't regulars/grinders prepare themselves for those events? If a guy is steadily making $50k a year playing O8 MTTs, gets a big win every 2nd year to go with that, I think that means something. Especially considering that he's preparing himself in a way, getting more and more experience by playing MTTs day-in/day-out.

Yeah we are talking theoretically anyway.

I also think top 10 mtts regs make more than top 10 hyper regs.

But if i had to play fulltime i would probably still prefer playing hypers.

+1 to the above. There are not that many guys grinding hypers that hard currently but that does not mean it can't be done.

OK my stoner friend. So what is your stars SN?

Do I misinterpret things sometimes? I sure hope so, if I don't, I'm getting ripped off

I've had the pleasure of an extended history with most of these dudes. Maybe some of the stuff I say is based on that history.

thats what i try telling dem guys the whole time.

yup and you're also saying that you could make 100k+ a year. Make a prop bet ffs. I think u will get action. **** i'd put my hourse on it that you cant do it.

As already been said you come in here every so often making all these tarded challenges that never amount to anything. boring.

i asked for a short term prop and nobody wanted action besides bokkie who is the best reg imo... so what lol ^.^ Ima quit fulltime poker in a few months cause I'll start to study so im not doing a yearly prop obv. Id still maybe do a monthly or shorter one. Im just grinding a lot these days to get baller flat in a few months.

btw played 600 today which is most for me lifetime to get a litle warmup for sunday.
that 600 were done in 7,4h.

Making 100k a year is for sure possible with hypers but the problem with most hyper players is that they play more then only hypers.
IF you look at me
i play hypers cash mtts and some 18s
still i will win pretty easy the leaderboard if nobody is playing a big volume of hypers.

does anyone know whats the most O8 6m hypers played number for a single day ? waltiph has 650 according to sharkscope.

It probably belongs to wadzon if that is not the record.

So what time are you guys playing tomorrow I might want to start a session after you guys reach 500