Perhaps the general public having much more experience interacting with touch screens in general than they did when etables were first introduced would also help lead to their acceptance this time around.

Do you know that electronic poker table makers are still looking to get their product into the market and that there is a willingness to consider it on the casino management side?

I believe this is the whole point of the re-opening criteria put forth by the government (at least in the US). Whether one believes in the criteria is a separate question because clearly there are risks involved in any re-opening.

I meant most games not most tables. That being said, the number of blackjack tables has steadily declined over the years and has been replaced by carnival games... most of which require touching cards.

I have bent your will. Don't worry, I'm sure you will recover.

I don't know. These and even more severe policies were in place right before the shutdown and there were games running. But I agree few but the most avid poker players want to play 4-handed. Certainly, poker cannot thrive 4-handed. I also feel like the numbers being chosen are fairly haphazard. For example, the typical perimeter (rail) length of a vegas-style blackjack/carnival game table is about 10-11 ft. So, with 3 players and a dealer they're allocating about 2.75 ft per person. A typical 9-handed poker table has a perimeter length of about 17-18 ft. So, with 4 players and a dealer, they are allocating 3.4 ft per person. If they added a 5th player, there would still be more elbow room than in blackjack.

Anything is possible but I'd be surprised by this. It takes a lot of effort to reconfigure gaming space. And it is typically only done because there is something in high demand which requires space and something in low demand which has space. I don't think any table gaming is going to be in high demand with these policies... at least in the early stages.

This may happen. But I don't think it will be a success. There are basically two types of gamblers. Those that just want to sit somewhere mindlessly playing a game of chance and those that are there for some sort of social interaction in addition to the action. The former typically play slots. The latter typically do not. The only reason table games exist is because casinos understand there are lots and lots of the second type of player out there. I don't think this will change with whatever the post-covid world looks like.

Absolutely agree. Same goes for many other table games. Its half the fun.

I will say that allowing players to manipulate cards is almost always (perhaps always) to a casino's advantage in blackjack and carnival games, assuming they have basic game security practices in place.

I will repeat it one last time so hopefully it will sink in... Tournaments are not likely to happen until large gatherings are allowed. When large gatherings are allowed, there will be no more social distancing. No more social distancing means games will return to their normal capacity.

While I would not rule anything out completely, I don't foresee 4-handed tournaments either. Though I suppose it would be possible to run a heads-up event if it is managed correctly.

Agreed to some extent. But I'm not sure. Demand will certainly be down for some indeterminate period of time. But what we've seen in many examples, is, when restrictions ease, people rush out to do those things. I'm not saying this will be the case for everything. And Vegas is a bit of a special case because it takes a fair bit of planning and effort to partake in what it has to offer. But general gaming will probably return sooner than you think.

As for poker, I have done an informal poll of some local players. Assuming a reasonable game is offered (ie not 3 handed).. 12/24 said they will return as soon as they are allowed. 6/24 said they will wait a couple months after being allowed to see how things shake out. And 6/24 said they will wait until there is a vaccine. This is certainly not a scientific poll, but I think it supports my conjecture that the demand for poker will be there once casinos are re-opened. We'll see if casinos are able and willing to meet that demand.

One of the biggest objections to epoker tables was the lack of the ability to buyin and rebuy for cash at the tables. Every player position needs a bill acceptor or won't work in Vegas.

I hated it because I just liked physically having cards or chips. The best part of it was not having to worry about a slow dealer but overall it just didn’t take too well. Lower limit players hated it because it changed the social aspect of the game to an extent and higher limit players hate it for different reasons

Sounds terrible and I would never want that.

what will poker players do with their hands if they can't shuffle chips non stop

Akashank you keep writing that once large gatherings are allowed again that poker rooms are gonna quickly have all these poker tournaments and imo that can't be farther from the truth. I think when it comes to poker rooms in general(the ones that are left from this) there is going to be a lot more caution and taking it slow, especially for events like a poker tournament that isn't any kind of real money maker for the casinos. And I can't even imagine when governments will start allowing large gatherings again, probably not until a vaccine is out there and the majority of the country has gotten it.

That could take a few years and that's what is so depressing. Aside from a vaccine how could most states feel comfortable allowing large gatherings? I just cannot see it. I think sadly the only hope in most poker rooms for the next 18-24 of live poker tournaments is getting approved for 6-max as new treatments and medicine become available. 6 max might be the new 'normal' for live poker tournaments for quite some time. But first there probably needs to be extensive lobbying by the poker industry to get 4 max outta there and 6 max as the new standard. 4 max ain't gonna work in any capacity.

Another issue with the E-Tables are that they are not new player friendly. I saw a guy on a cruise once constantly getting timed out because he just could not figure the interface out... especially looking at the cards.

Just saw on twitter from a Stations casino poker dealer that they got rid of all poker employees at all properties(including Red Rock) including poker managers and the director.

Looks like they will just wait 6 month or a year or whatever for things to turn around and then rehire people from scratch. All seniority lost even if they get hired back later.

To be fair, I'm looking at this through British eyes, and the situation here is generally much worse than in Nevada (I live in a small town in which over 0.1% of the population has died of the virus in the last month, so Covid fatalities are pretty close to home). In Britain, opinion polls suggest that <10% of the population wants pubs to be opened, and British people normally love pubs. Hardly anyone here is in a hurry to go back to crowded places. They just want to be allowed to walk in the park.
For whatever reason - perhaps because it's literally less risky in some localities - Americans seem to be more desperate to go out and get their hair and nails done, and maybe play some live poker. In the UK, we're still growing our beards and playing online.

Those aren't chips in my pocket, son.

all my comments above were focused on etables for table games. I'm trying to avoid changing the direction of any conversations for epoker. much more interesting for me to hear what others have to say.

But yes, the radio chatter from operators asking about epoker has picked up lately, especially from CA Card club.

Tru dat in the strongest way possible. They failed for many reasons, your reason above either #1 or #2 depending on how you look at it. People running that company were flaming idiots especially for not listening to many that told them this early on.

will OK most games. sort of irrelevant that dozens types of games exist on the floor but dont have much mkt share. Largest mkt share in US is still BJ. Games that dont get played dont really matter to the discussion. But your comments about table games are correct. I will stop thinking you are just pulling casino ops stuff from your arse. You obviously know some things about the topic.


huh... what are we talking about now.

I know the length/width but have never figured perimeter dimensions. your number sounds close enough. 5 handed poker I guess is better than 4 handed, but I am not convinced that even 6 handed will get spread in any but a few places.

House rake start to drop off at 7 handed. less rake at 6 less again at 5, etc etc Rake is maxed at 8-handed. Drops of again 9 and worse at 10.

Sadly for all, reduced rake 5 handed (or even 6) just another in long list of reasons to not even offer poker for the foreseeable future. CA Card Clubs, some tracks in FL where poker is big part of their business will likely be the first places it tries to get cranked back up. will be interesting to see what happens there. First that opens will certainly be pretty busy out of the gate for the reg on reg fest.


You will win a debate against me on just about any topic cuz I am basically pretty dumb. Etables aint one of those topics. Everything you say was true about 5 years ago . Etables have been widely accepted in Europe and Asia for 10+ years.

They failed badly in US over the same period. They started picking up meaningful table game share about 4 years ago in the US, and have been growing since. The newer platforms are more engaging. We can debate all you say, or just look at whats happened in the market over past 4 years. Market does not agree with you.

also reconfiguring floor space really not that hard. Especially when your casino is dark for 3+ months.


I just have no sense if players will come back right away. I can only speak for myself. Playing live MTTs is my favorite pastime and there is not a close 2nd. No chance I go play a live MTT until the situation changes significantly from current.


Gallup poll checks out. Shuffle up and deal. cmon. maybe observation bias? maybe you are total degen and thus only know other degens ?

Are these donators, or winners? My point has always been the donators will show up and play less hours than winners. Winners won't win without losers like me.

Damn I remember when I would come to Las Vegas in the summer back 15 years ago and the Palms was the cool hotel. Fun atmosphere, great upscale food. Now closed smh. Temporary they say but who knows. Reading that letter made me sad. I stayed there too a bunch of times, it was featured in 1 season of MTV's Real World.

And also all the poker rooms closed by Station Casinos? I guess the poker room purge is just beginning.

Wonder what will be left standing when it's all said and done. Venetian, Bellagio and Wynn poker rooms in my opinion will be the only one's left in Vegas. Depressing times ahead.

Like banning foursomes, threesomes, twosomes and onesomes at the golf course? Yeah, there is some window dressing from the our friends in gov't.

Players can still handle/mangle/destroy cards in full baccarat, with the difference being that those cards are never going to be used/touched by any other players. They can just be swept up into a trash bag (or whatever the security check procedures are).

I think they'll eventually open it since they just did a 500 million dollar re-model. It's the one stations casinos where they're trying to attract non-locals and I'm assuming that is why they decided to close it.

You are making two points apparently. The first is that you don't see large gatherings being allowed for a very long time. The second is that poker in general, and tournaments specifically, are going to be slower to come back that other activities that represent congregation of crowds.

As to the first, there is no way to know. And it will obviously look different in different places. But if you look at the re-opening guidelines being put forth at the federal and state levels, large gatherings are not some far off pipe dream. They could literally occur within a couple months under the right conditions. Now, you may disagree. And we will all see how it turns out. But even if we do not accept the most optimistic plans and projections, large gatherings may still happen in 2020. Why should we go along with your overly pessimistic prediction? There is, of course, a chance you will be proven right. But I definitely don't see why anyone would lean in that direction at this point.

As for poker, I continue to not understand why people have such a doom and gloom attitude about it. If a person is allowed to go to a nightclub, or a basketball game, why on earth would they not be allowed to attend a poker tournament? If there were suddenly this new thing that required casino space and was a big money-maker, I agree poker might get the short end of the stick as it usually does. But what is this thing? Certainly nothing that exists right now. So again, why just presume poker will be treated differently? If a venue was planning on getting rid of poker prior to Covid-19, then perhaps that is something that will still happen. But if you had a successful venue prior to Covid-19, then I don't see any reason why you can't eventually have a successful venue afterwards. And not within some lengthy timeframe like two years. There is a certain population of poker players (mainly older ones, I would think) who will not
return until there is nearly zero risk due to Covid-19. But I really think the vast majority of players will return either immediately or with a few months, so long as they are allowed.

This is such absurdity. But I guess it is to be expected.

No more:

“Dealer...Please square up the table.”


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Exactly, people will have to sit correct.

There seems to be two sides to the whole epidemic at this point.

Group A - Those that are scared and believe CNN and all the fear mongering.

Group B - those that think it is all overblown and want to be free'd

The two groups seem to be pissed at one another. Just because people hate when anyone has an opposite view. Thats just the way it is in America, maybe the world, I'm not to worldly so I can't speak to that. Just like politics, it seems people pick a side and stick with it and hate the others who think opposite. It seems to have gotten much worse in recent years. Very few in betweens, I was always "in between" but even feel myself being pulled towards one side more strongly now, probably the media at play since there is no "real news" anymore. Fox is ridiculously slanted right, CNN equally as ridiculous slanted left.

Back to poker and the virus. Vegas will be hurting, mainly from fear of traveling. Local casinos will be as busy as the local governments will allow them to be. I'm in the Philly area. Parx, Rivers etc will be plenty busy if they all reopened tommorrow. If they reopened poker they would have 20+ tables going within a week.

Fear of the virus is not going to kill the casinos. Only govt regulations will do that. Sure there are plenty of people who won't go because they are overly fearful. But there are tons of people who aren't afraid.

Whatever businesses are allowed to open will have customers. Thats my OPINION. It will be proven true or false really soon, as in the next month. When beaches open, people flock to them. Same with parks. Concerts, etc etc.

With some states reopening now well see if

A) it's not to bad after all with the virus , numbers increase which is inevitable but nothing catastrophic forcing another shut down. Other states will feel the pressure to reopen.

B) it's catastrophic and were forced to shut down and things are worse then before. Then we are really screwed

Now CNN, MSNBC are going to really push any negative effects of the states that reopened. Fox we downplay them. Thats all we know for sure at this point.

I'm buying plexiglass futures at the open

not because of the poker table (thats just stupid), but I am seeing plexi-glass every store I go to.