Who are you going to sue? The CASINO who is following to the letter the rulings that were handed down by the very Commission that was set up to regulate and control the casinos in New Jersey?

OR

The Commission that was set up by the State of New Jersey for the purpose of regulating and controlling gaming in the state?

OR

The Judge empowered by the State to make the ruling?

Come on!

Where is the fury about the asswipe that did this?

So don't go to the Borgata if you don't want to....AC is withering on the vine anyway.

The level of irrationally being displayed on here helps explain why poker tournaments have become the donkfests they are nowadays.

The chart you posted above answers exactly why he was expecting at least 28k....

no disrespect lovesantiques but i believe at least a half dozen people have tried to explain this to you. probably best if you just let it go.

our stacks have value based on the overall prize pool and this value would take into consideration the fact that we could finish in any of the 27 places. if you google icm you can perhaps find a detailed explanation that will suit you.

Yes you are confused. $28k was his equity in the tournament (assuming the chart is correct, it looks to be under valuing the short stacks to me). Just because a high % of the time he would get less than $28k doesn't mean that the $28k figure is wrong. A small % of the time he would run deep and receive much more than $28k. $28k is the average he would make if the tournament was run many times.
This ruling is crazy unfair. I haven't seen any good players agree with the ruling ITT. The people that agree with the ruling either don't understand anything about tournaments or they are just biased because they are hoping to get a refund. If someone introduced 1 chip in play you can argue that the outcome of tournament would be different because of the butterfly effect. That doesn't mean that the whole tournament should be cancelled. Where do you draw the line? What if the floor makes a color up mistake, does that mean the tournament should be cancelled? What do you do if you see someone sneak in a 25k chip at the final table? Speaking up could cost u a lot of equity. This ruling sets a terrible precedent.

Ideally they would refund everyone who played on the day the cheater played and pay the final 27 out by icm, or some modified version of icm that helps the short stacks). Maybe half of the remaining prize pool chopped evenly and half by chip chop.But if that option wasn't available the most fair solution IMO would be to refund everyone their $60 in rake, give an additional comp (not out of the prize pool) to players who players who played on the day the cheater played and pay the final 27 using icm or something close. Instead they got the regulators to agree to something that didn't cost them that much and appeased a lot of people and cheated a small number.

he was clearly referencing ICM payout for 22nd place.

the borgata screwed us out of 912k for their negligience. the refunds should be coming out of their pockets for this reason not the pockets of the victims, it was their job to provide security and they failed. so obvious

i have a lawyer in point pleasant who said he doesnt have the expertise in this section of the law,but he said he knows of 2 in atlantic county who do not represent the casinos. he is giving me their names and numbers today or tommorow. he suggested getting the names of other players who are affected to lower our out of pocket expenses. i will post the info when i hear from him. we need to get back the 911k that was stolen! i am not cashing the check that they send me. an even chop would give us about 3x more than we will get if we allow them rob us.

if stealing 911k out of the prizepool is making it right than they did their job perfectly!

because 911k was given as a refund to players who may or may not have deserved it. regardless, the borgata should cover this loss out of their pockets, not out of someone elses.

I am thoroughly impressed at how you guys in the final 27 seriously believe you're being robbed. It might be hard but you really need to take a step back and realize at least 2000 others were affected by lusardi, not just 27. The borgata returned every dollar from the rake and gave out every dollar left in the prize pool. The 900k was not stolen from you guys at all. You are on the very good end of the deal, 2000+ players who were affected by the cheater and lost, they deserve their money back. You guys on the other hand were most likely positively affected by the cheater and 17 of you are getting a lot more than you would've ended up with if the tournament wasn't cancelled. So what you are actually doing by lawyer-ing up to fight for the 900k is: saying that you were positively impacted by a cheater and compensated very well for it, yet you are entitled to rob all the negatively affected players of their money...(I say this because you believe that the borgata should have paid the 900k to you guys, instead of used it for refunds. Since they didn't do that, you want to sue them for it)

You guys all made out very well and it could've ended worse for you. Just try to take a step back and appreciate it. I promise all 27 of you would not have gotten 9th-10th place money or better if this had played out.

They didn't give everything back. Let's give money back from the pits flight costs gas. Room charges. Food. My time. They made so much off of us during this. Rake during cash games. They should of covered the refunds themselves.

with all due respect... stopped reading right about there.

without trying to read 4500+ posts, is there cliff notes anywhere? or an article on what happened?

I lost money from traveling and in the pits as well. But that is on us, not the Borgata. The tournament was compromised, not the hotels we stayed at and pits we played in and restaurants we ate at.

I’m bothered by the investigation process conducted by NJDGE in this matter. Is NJDGE supposed to be an independent, objective agency? It seems like NJDGE and Borgata acted more like partners rather than government overseer and private business it’s supposed to monitor. The communication to the players was poor throughout the process.

NJDGE saying that Borgata was not guilty of any wrongdoing just doesn’t ring true. According to player accounts, the tourney was staffed partly with completely inexperienced / incompetent dealers; there was a lack of adequate control procedures like stack counting; floor staff failed to address player complaints that fake chips had entered the tourney. Again, remember that the tourney was stopped only because of an alert from a nearby casino (the infamous clogged toilet pipes).

Did NJDGE bother to interview any players during these 3 months or was it working solely with Borgata?. I know the standard response will be “you can’t trust players to tell the truth” but shouldn’t a supposedly professional agency like NJDGE collect any relevant information it can and make that call? The monies at issue (prize pool) belonged entirely to the players (unlike the ~$10M case related to Ivey at the baccarat table). Borgata has an obvious compelling interest here - negligence or any wrongdoing would lead to fines; so there's a possibility of staff, purposefully or not, omitting or distorting key facts (not saying this happened).

If the rationale is “well, Borgata ran the tourney like any other poker room would” then something was seriously f***ed up about how casinos run tourneys. It’s clear that Borgata implicitly acknowledged this by the recent changes it made.

The ruling makes Borgata look heroic in the press because it gave back to players/customers the rake that it didn’t have to. And it completely glosses over the problem of lousy customer service and adequate protection of players.

(in b4 "tl:dr")

WTF is this so hard for people to understand?

look at it this way:
450-28 payouts were based on the prize pool of $2,325,835.
27 payouts are based on $1,425,835

How is that fair?

Seems the players that cashed and were paid already owe back some money.

Places 450-28 were paid out $972,355.
So these players averaged $972,355 / 422 = $2,304 prize per person.

Remaining 27 players averaged (and actual) $19,323 prize per person.

Sorry I don't see anything wrong with this result given the tournament was compromised and cancelled. It's not like any player who was outside of the remaining 27 got paid more than anyone in the 27.

This...

the Borgata takes $60 from each entry. Isn't that money supposed to ensure that the tournament is run fairly and securely? (Not in an event center with limited cameras)

They find that the Borgata was not at fault. (?!?). Then the tournament is cancelled but only 50% of players get their money back. Bizarre IMO

My idea was the best. Live with the dge ruling. They narrowed down who should get their entry refunded.

Other players not even remotely affected get nothing.

The final 27 should be given an option to take the dge offer, or opt for a chip count Icm settlement.

This is about the best you can do and creates great pr for borgata and satisfies the final 27 as well

if this went before a jury, what do you think a neutral party would rule? to borgata: did you provide proper security for your tournament? answer- yes, lawyer- well than how did 1 player manage to bring in 800,000 fake chips? borgata - we dont know. next question, borgata, did any of the players in the game mention to your staff that some of the chips looked fake? borgata-yes next borgata, when did you finally decide to stop tournament? borgata- we got a call from harrahs. to borgata- so just having players bringing fake chips to your attention meant nothing? borgata- ummm ummmm.
next, borgata you decided along with the DGE to give refunds to players who were potentialy affected with money that came from where? borgata-the prizepool. next, borgata, how did you decide to do this? borgata- well judge we have had extensive meetings with the DGE and WE decided this would be fair. next, borgata- fair to who? borgata- fair to everyone. again borgata- where did this payout come from? borgata- prizepool. and that money was designated for? borgata-remaining players who didnt cash.

so yes, they, ( DGE/Borgata) were so kind to give someone elses money away to bail themselves out, nice real nice

jury rules for plaintiffs, 911,000 plus court costs and attorneys fees, next!

wake up

I don't see any of the Day 1 bustouts who didn't get refunds in here complaining.

Somehow if you were chipleader I can't imagine you would live with this DGE ruling.