I agree with the post above that the $60 vig should have been refunded to all players

This was obv an extreme summation on my part. (But to the 2000 entries who did not receive their buy-in back this ended up being the case....yeah yeah I know nobody knew this at the time and their tournament wasn't impacted by Lusardi)

I still don't understand how a tournament is "canceled" but only 1/2 the ppl receive their buy in back. Then to make things "right" the Borgata and DGE decide to use the other 1/2's buy ins to pay the top finishers.

Either do right by the final 27 or cancel the tournament in full.

And before someone says I'm just mad I didn't get a refund I am getting one. Played Day 1A and busted out around 8 pm.

Thank you both (and the others who answered) for the explanations. Shows why cash game players (I don't play tournaments hardly at all, and have thus never studied ICM) should not discuss this subject.....

2 things I've learned though:

A. Looking at the payout table is simple and easy for a potential judge or jury to understand. Easy for them to see that 18 of the 27 would have earned less than the settlement if the tournament had played out. Harder for them to see what an ICM chop would be, and why it applies. Might be a difficult sell.

B. IF I ever play in a tournament, and
IF I am a chip leader when a chop is being discussed, and
IF I honestly believe that I'll end up in 1st or 2nd place (maybe even 3rd)

THEN I'll know that ICM isn't my friend.

On the other hand, if I am playing a tournament and end up having luckboxed my way into a chop discussion, and if I have one of the midsized to smaller stacks - ICM, I love you!!

Lee

What's easier to see is the fact that the earlier cashers got their full payouts, but the Final 27 had to refund the Day 1 bustouts.

Obviously the main question is why does the Final 27 need to foot the bill? Of the $50,000 or whatever still left to be paid to prior cashouts..why are they getting 100% of their payouts?

These should be the focal points. If the 27 focuses on ICM I think their odds go down dramatically.

The number one thing the borgata needs to do and other casinos also is develop a uniform "cancelation" policy. It should basically be if a tournament is canceled before the money everyone gets a refund. After the money the prizepool should be chopped. Than this situation is avoided.

People who played day1C got a horrible deal as they could only win a max of 19k and they only got a refund if they made day 2. Obviously not what they signed up for.

one thing that makes no sense about the refunds and settlement-

Say you played 1a and get busted by Lusardi himself...you were clearly affected....Ok, great you get the $560 refund. But now, you wait until 1c to re enter...and bust again...Sorry, No refund on that 1c entry.

My point is, did that first buy-in and bust not lead you to having to buy in a 2nd, 3rd or 4th time? Like, people claim all the day 1c players "were not affected", but many many many Day 1c entries were re entries from bust outs on 1a and 1b. How was the second or thrid bullet not directly related to your compromised bustouts.

1 c squad were totally ingnored fired 2 bullets
the event center was like a war zone that night
yet the borgata as all along has no regard for the players
the 27 deserve way more from 327000 to 20k joke

Credit the regulators for setting aside all issues involving fairness and equity. This was a ruling made by Mr. Practical.

A couple thousand people have a decent beef for a refund. Get em off our backs. Make em happy. Give them refunds. Good for business.

Sure there are security issues, but punish Borgata and set a precedent for compromised tournaments in the future? Let's not go there.

Surely if the final 27 deserve to lose equity, then those who have already cashed should pay back some of their winnings. But who's going to be devoted to chasing them down and making them pay? Get practical.

Yes, the final 27 got robbed, but its only 27. Very finite. Neat and tidy. Some or all may sue, but Borgata has lawyers. They have confidentiality agreements. This is manageable. They will be dealt with and this matter will start to fade into the background.

If you're looking at fair play, right, wrong and all other matters of integrity, I'd contend you're not looking at this ruling realistically. This is all about practicality and what it takes to move forward.

You are 100% correct. Even as per Borgata's own official statement it says that:

http://www.theborgata.com/assets/pdf...resolution.pdf

"Entrants who re-entered any Day One events (A, B, or C) after busting out may also be eligible for a refund of $560 per entry, depending on the above criteria. Certain individuals who re-entered on multiple occasions may be eligible for refunds for more than one entry"

This is interesting but I think we are reading TOO much into it.

So let me get this straight...if a player played in a flight with Lusardi and lost he would receive his $560 back. If he then entered the late session on day 1C and fired multiple bullets he would receive all his buy-ins back because of the original entry. (Late session on 1C was not eligible for refunds because Lusardi did not impact session. In above scenario he suddenly did "impact" session) Yeah....I don't think so.

In theory I guess it makes sense because if he played in a flight without Lusardi and made it through on his own skill he never would have fired bullets on 1C.

This gets back to what I said earlier....you can spin it anyway you want. If a tournament is canceled then cancel it. Give everyone their money back.

Bingo !! Right on target:
"In theory I guess it makes sense because if he played in a flight without Lusardi and made it through on his own skill he never would have fired bullets on 1C."
NJDGE 's stand is if your play/entry is affected by lisardi's criminal act then u r entitle for refund. If you played 1b and knocked out u were forced to fire 2nd or 3rd bullets . Otherwise u would not have donated $$$.

What you are failing to remember is there was a finite prize pool to distribute. Had Borgata went into their pocket for a little the dispostion would have been better.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using 2+2 Forums

When is borgata going to start mailing out the refunds ??

I wrote to Mr. Governor to look in to the case for the best interest of so many NJ residence / players.

Here is the response.

Dear Mr. XXXX

Thank you for your letter. I appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts with me.

I have asked the Department of Law and Public Safety Acting Attorney General John Hoffman to review the information you sent to me and reply to you directly. If you wish to contact Acting Attorney General Hoffman's office, you may write to the Department of Law and Public Safety at PO Box 80, Trenton, NJ 08625-0080, or call (609) 292-4925.

Again, thank you for writing.

Sincerely,

Chris Christie
Governor

I was told by the hotline operator that the checks are in the mail!

So how is everyone planning on spending pnwin, mrdadio, and Oneof27's money?

Note to the above, not a taunt at you guys. I'm not getting a refund. Just a commentary on how bad this is

The question is would you have played in 1 c if you knew the tourney would be canceled
from a 1 b player actions?

I'll give that a no

I just called Borgata, they said I didn't played with him in same room. I don't get refund at all. F that!

If that's true, I'm curious why you find it so unreasonable.

he may lost some chips to other players, then these players were moved to my table and knock me out. Can you say I ma not effected?

If he ran pure and made top 27 his winnings were capped at 20k

Theoretically

Wasn't that the whole point of the 4.30 cutoff? No tables from his room broke into other rooms until then?

This whole I was potentially effected because there might have been fake chips is getting absurd. You've lost your chips fair, against fake chips or not. Did you loose because the chips of the other player might have been fake? No. You lost because you had the worst hand or folded when you shouldn't have. Deal with it and move on.

Besides that any thinking poker player would rather sit at a table with fake chips then without, as anyone who can bring fake chips into play is more likely to spew.

Totally Agree

Less whining from the bustouts (many of which got a gift with a refund imo)

More prize pool for final 27