GL Final 27

I hope at the end of the day Borgata realizes it made a bad decision trying to save 900K by paying the Day 1 bustouts from the Final 27 pool.

Pretty much a slam dunk case for the final 27. There is no way you would lose in court. They took your money to refund the players for their mistake. pretty straightforward

This statement is a perfect summary of the final decision that was made.

thoroughly sensible

O is not the same as 0.

Lee, I think this is good advice:

But I'll give it one last try anyway.

You're in a tournament with 3 players remaining. The guy in 1st has 5,000 chips, the guy in 2nd has 3,000 chips, and you have 2,000 chips. The tournament pay table is $10,000 for first, $10 for second, and $5 for first. Would you be happy with an offer of $15? You're in third now, and that's even more money than if you finish all the way up in second, right?

I would hope you'd turn down that $15 every time, because you have a much, much greater than .15% chance of taking first place.

I've made a very extreme example to illustrate the point of ICM. It factors in the odds everyone has of finishing in different positions - people at the bottom have an ICM value that is much higher than their current spot in the payout table because there are some large prizes at the top that they have a chance at. Those at the top have a much lower ICM value than their payout table position, because there is a decent chance that they finish lower.

For sure - the same or very similar ideas haven't been suggested by dozens of other posters or anything.

I think the most fair solution would have been:

- Give the remaining money in the prize pool to the final 27 in some way.
- Borgata gives the 2,000 potentially cheated players $560 in casino credit.

There is no way the casino credit thing works at all, people came from all over the country for this series

The people who got screwed were the chip leaders with 27 left, who got like $120K less than the ICM value.

I busted out a little after the reentry deadline on day 1, so I probably won't get anything. I hope this Lusardi played day 1.

Borgata isn't going to want to pay refunds AND pay an ICM chop, because then they lose too much money. I really don't blame them though.

I think this is designed to keep everyone happy, but I think an ICM chop and no refunds would have been fairer.

Basically, if the casino only gives up vig, the already paid players keep their cashes, and a large portion of people get refunded, the only remaining group to fund the refunds is the final 27.

The people deemed affected by the cheating get 100% back --> freeroll with some few impacted by playing directly with cheater
The people already paid get the entire value of their place --> they're down some equity due to cheating, but get 100% of place value
The final 27 --> lost a ton of equity from the remaining prize pool
Borg --> out of pocket for running the event, but no exposure for additional reimbursement

Seems like the real winners are the early bustouts, most of whom got minimal impact but who are getting 100% refunds. The losers are the 27 and the casino. Maybe you're fine with the casino losing, though I really haven't seen that their procedures are significantly worse than normal. Maybe they were and they should be held as getting off here?

Assuming there isn't some 7 figure pool of money available to hand out, is there a clearly better chop of the funds that is more fair?

Keep us updated. I, for one, would only hire someone who would take this on contingency. sorry, but I don't have money to hire a lawyer.

Not so confident this case is a slam dunk though. if a lawyer is demanding $ to pursue damages that is strong evidence that the case is not so simple. Borgata has obviously had time to look this ruling over, their lawyers know what is coming and are prepared. I want my full equity and certainly I'll stand with other players and I don't want to try to be a downer but I'm just trying to look at this objectively.

I really hope lovesantique is leveling us. He posts quite a bit on this site but doesn't get icm.

Nice illustration. To further clarify, Bobo's stylized example breaks down as follows:

ICM values:
1st: $5,004.20
2nd: $3,005.38
3rd: $2,005.43.

Prize structure:
1st: $10,000
2nd: $10
3rd: $5

Actual amounts paid:
1st: $15
2nd: $15
3rd: $15

Who introduced the fake penny into the ICM prizepool?

Probably some rounder.

Nice.

Your idea of how the case would play out is quite delusional, I'd love to see it happen that way but it is still delusional. Please take it to court to prove me wrong, I would be very happy for you guys if it worked out.

Obviously the money came from the prize pool! The tournament was cancelled! What don't you get about that word??! If they had waited to pay everyone out at the same time instead of whenever you bust out - they would've given refunds to everyone and called it a day because they'd have all the money. It's something they might start doing in the future to prevent this, and I'm sure this ending is happier than that one for you. Your statement about the borgata using your money to give refunds is ridiculous. If anything, the borgata used all the non refunded players money to satisfy the remaining 27. Again the tournament was cancelled and their first priority should have been refunds for every person who entered. Then taking care of anyone who shouldve cashed. You got lucky this time, in the future it won't play out like this.

Except you're only in the final 27 because the tournament was tainted.

Summary: Helter Skelter

+1

That holds true for any big tournament; all are tainted by some kind of error. Someone might have been seated at the wrong seat, a small mistake with the color-up might have been made. Any change in circumstances will lead to a completely different outcome anytime, anywhere. Why is 1% extra chips so fundamentally different from all those other things that go wrong that have never been a reason to take 50%+ equity from the final few tables? What matters is that the chips have been won in a fair way by the 27 players left; in that sense a false chip is no different than a chip that shouldn't have been in play by a color-up mistake i.e.

FYP.

It's pretty ridiculous to suggest that all 27 are only there because of the extra chips.

Funny thing is men the master got paid from a larger prizepool by finishing 28th.

it's not just that but also how many busted just prior to 27 because of the extra chips?

You're reading abilities are not the writers problem.

I see your grammar is on point.

Please explain how someone's reading ability, or lack thereof, has anything to do with the length of the writer's post.

This thread is full of pointless speculation and idiotic reasoning. I apologize if suggesting that people compact their thoughts into a shorter, more precise post has offended you.