Real Deal Poker - We'll Be Right Back After These Extensive Renovations [2011] - Page 44 - Internet Poker

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Real Deal Poker - We'll Be Right Back After These Extensive Renovations [2011]

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05-13-2010 , 05:08 AM

#1076

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquirrel1

Had time to sit in some freerolls and interestingly enough on the hands I witnessed I didn't see one AA v KK or AA v QQ or QQ v KK which is very rare. FT is pure gold for that sort of big hand set up.

Not too many suckouts. Big pairs held up without the online suckout ace rag hitting most of the time. Of course that was just a few hands, and I had to sit some out, but it looks encouraging.

So, how many hands did you witness?

And what fraction of a suitable sample size to draw valid inferences do you believe that was?

Quote

05-13-2010 , 07:44 AM

#1077

heater

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 11,402

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

So, how many hands did you witness?

And what fraction of a suitable sample size to draw valid inferences do you believe that was?

lol, does it matter?

has a riggie ever been saved?

why bother, lost cause, etc.

Quote

05-13-2010 , 08:16 AM

#1078

McSeafield

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 8,623

I see RD for the next weeks still in a testing phase and would have found it better if they had fixed all problems first.

Now Gioia International Ltd. has a IoM Licence for RDP:

http://www.gov.im/gambling/licensees/

and RD uses the following iTech Labs Certificate:

Quote:

Card Shuffling and Dealing System Certificate

This is to certify that iTech Labs has evaluated the card shuffling and dealing system created by Gioia International for Real Deal Poker. The card shuffling and dealing system complies with the requirements of Isle of Man Gambling Supervision Commission.

No pseudo random number generators (PRNGs) are used in the card shuffling and dealing system. Physical decks of cards are shuffled multiple times for each deal. Audit trails are maintained for all aspects of the card shuffling and dealing system.

iTech Labs’ evaluation has focussed on shuffling for single decks (without joker) specifically for use in poker games. Large samples of deals have been collected to give calculations sufficient statistical power. The deals generated by the system have passed tests for statistical randomness, and for the occurrence of standard poker hands. iTech Labs has found that the card sequences are unpredictable, non-repeatable and uniformly distributed.

Click here to view the Original iTech Labs Certificate.

Signed:

_____________________

Ian Manning

Principal Consultant

iTech Labs Australia

07 May 2010

Disclaimer.
While it is not possible to test all possible scenarios in a laboratory environment, iTech Labs has conducted a level of testing appropriate for a component test of this type.

Same stuff .... but obv enough to get an IoM license.

Quote

05-13-2010 , 02:07 PM

#1079

siguy6819

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by McSeafield

'No pseudo random number generators (PRNGs) are used in the card shuffling and dealing system', still doesn't say how it is done exactly? As far as I’m aware they still haven't mentioned this.

Quote

05-13-2010 , 02:32 PM

#1080

spadebidder

Actually Shows Proof

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,905

Quote:

Originally Posted by siguy6819

'No pseudo random number generators (PRNGs) are used in the card shuffling and dealing system', still doesn't say how it is done exactly? As far as I’m aware they still haven't mentioned this.

I suspect they will continue to claim they deal directly from the real shuffled decks, and they hope the questions about the "matrix" will just die out. Their marketing hasn't changed. Click for sources.

"The ultimate certified real card deal."

• Allows players to play and cut a real deck of cards—online.
• Each deal from a real deck is used only once.
• Replicates the actions of dealers in live poker games.

Separate digital and video records maintained for every deal.

Real Deal Poker uses actual cards which are shuffled and dealt by machines

Further, Gioia is becoming very evasive about the questions. See this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0klNH...ayer_embedded#!

Pay close attention to how he avoids directly answering the questions about the shuffling and dealing, and instead says what he wants to say which doesn't answer the question.

Last edited by spadebidder; 05-13-2010 at 02:53 PM.

Quote

05-13-2010 , 02:38 PM

#1081

spilari

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 600

OK.

Let me know I have it right:

a) The RDP guys think all online poker is rigged, so they decide to make a non-rigged site

b) They buy a platform from one of the network operators, and find that the card shuffler RNG is a nicely isolated module that can easily be replaced.

c) They replace the RNG shuffler with their Rube Goldberg contraption that they have perfected over 5 years

d) voila: a non-rigged site, and presumably profit!

Now if this is what happened, then I have these questions:

1) Did they not notice that the RNG shuffler is not rigged, and cannot be rigged because it is a nicely isolated module that has no extra information that all rig theories are based on (stack sizes, recent withdrawals, and so on) ?

2) If they found the RNG was rigged, why did they not just replace it with a non-rigged one?

Quote

05-13-2010 , 02:51 PM

#1082

paleking

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 133

Quote:

Originally Posted by McSeafield

and RD uses the following iTech Labs Certificate:

Quote:

...
iTech Labs’ evaluation has focussed on shuffling for single decks (without joker) specifically for use in poker games. Large samples of deals have been collected to give calculations sufficient statistical power. The deals generated by the system have passed tests for statistical randomness, and for the occurrence of standard poker hands. iTech Labs has found that the card sequences are unpredictable, non-repeatable and uniformly distributed.
...

So, IOW, iTech focussed on exactly the same method that Josem and Spadebidder have used / advocated (presumably iTech had to have had a smaller sample and in a lab setting) to demonstrate the randomness of the deal. Hmm... It's the output (over a significant sample of hands) that counts.

Only, for all of the noise about transparency, an actual operational assessment of the output in actual play (a la Spadebidder or by individual users) is far less likely to be achievable because a) way less volume b) less of a corpus of hand histories due to limitations on the use of HUDs c) not showing hole cards of losing hands that made it to showdown in hand histories.

Quote

05-13-2010 , 03:30 PM

#1083

NFuego20

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 4,295

Ooh big Tom has outdone himself this time laaaaaaaaaaaawl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Dwyer

What if... (If you respond, ANSWER "every" What if question please) Otherwise, the reply is gone.
NOTE! This is a "PRO REAL DEAL POKER thread of "WHAT IFS" questions." (Pro RNG players are welcome to start their own PRO RNG SITES "what if" thread if they like) I will delete any replies that do not follow the rules in the title of this thread. Let's take this one serious. Let's have an adult conversation on all this.

It's and ANSWER all or nothing thread. (My thread - my rules) Try to give detailed well thought out replies.

heart-shaped-bana&.jpg

Tom's what if questions.. Part "1"

1 -What if some of the members here poking fun at the pro Gene Gioia (Real Deal) camp are paid to be here to cause trouble. (You can get kids, and some adults sadly, to do all sorts of underhanded, trouble causing stuff for very little, like a few entries into small ball online tourneys or 5 or 10 bucks thrown into an account from time to time.) What if their sole mission if to keep poker players from getting the truth.

2 - What if some of the "pro" Real Deal players are onto something about the current , and eveb the "past closed poker" roomos/sites like "POKER DREAM" being rigged OR tweaked in some way to keep action going or to generate more rake?? (Anyone remember the piece of crap that was POKER DREAM?) That man ran off with my money and the money of many poker players.

3- What if (somehow, just go with me here) different players accounts are manipulated, while others are not? (And or to different degrees) so that one reports one thing, making it look bad for anyone wanting to speak up about their account if it's true? (like, take "never" winning with solid play EVER) **Don't ask me to define solid play; The never winning point many are making, no matter what cards are being played "OVER many Years" is suspect for sure we must all agree. I've ran games for years and I can tell you as FACT - That the better players won 75-85% of the time. BUT, everyonce in a great while, loose, no skilled players crushed the games. (Problem is... ALL money and then some returned to the player with better skills a day or two later, when play resumed.) *I can games for 3-4 years - every week, 2-4 times a week with up to 3 tables running. 2/4 limit, 1/3 pot limit and 1/2 NL. When I stopped due to my health and my daughter being almost 3 years of age. Pots were as high as $1800.00 (This is a game of mostly regular Joes poker players)

FIRST TEST!..jpg

4 - What if, all the posts ALL over the net (in hundreds of poker forums) about online poker not being right all these years - Are well.. right? We are talking about a sick number of topics and posts here people. (Do a search for rigged online poker some time?)

5- What if some or ALL accounts ALWAYS have flops with tight boards, turns always produce scare cards, and hands where any players left in action are ALWAYS hitting major draws and being beat by a player with "one better" a little too often (or Like all the time when it counts) and worst yet, bad draws by poor playing, "mega loose calling players that have no reason to be in hands based on pre flop and flop betting" , going runner runner and taking the huge pots.. more than math and %'s should allow? (or... like ALL the TIME when it counts) you know, hitting the 1 or 2 outters time and time again?

6- What if the pro RNG camp has it all wrong with the "more hands per hour statements as to why players see more bad beats and or are reporting "bad beats all the time?" (Why can't more hands per hour ALSO mean the possibility of better players winning much more money like, three or four times faster? Why does speed of play only seem to lean to the BAD BEATS situation?

7 - What if, players are right about calling the turn cards suite and value 80% of the time? (Is this random if any of this is true?)

huge real deal in.jpg

8 - What if, All these stats the pro RNG camp talk so much about are "tweaked" by say.. hmmm Allowing players to win small pots with hands like AK and AA, KK etc.. but crushing them when the POTS mean something substantial? (Big money pots?) (oh... Like all the time) Making it appear the stats are legit.

I mean.. Look around the net. What if all these players ARE RIGHT? (It's quite a lot of rigtards, they can't all be stupid can they?) Why would all these players take the staggering amount of time to post these concerns and statements about their accounts NEVER WINNING? Why would guys like me invest over 8 years looking for something like Real Deal? Why would Gene and his crew work over 5 years and receive 4 patents and a license to operate an online poker game with these changes? Seems to me the mass numbers of negative posts alone around the net and here,speaks volumes on these matters. It makes it clear (At least to me and a many others around here and working with and investing in RD) That another option of card delivery for online play is needed and very much wanted. (How could so many people be so upset and WRONG?) I don't think it's possible.. (THIS and many other RNG camp claims only make me laugh at this point.)

9 - What if RNG's simply can't do what a REAL DECK of playing cards has been doing for many lifetimes now? What if they can't deal a true random game of poker online? (Could it be that simple? making it that it's nothing about cheating just a case of "Rng's never worked in the first place"

10 - What if the RNG (and proven POKER PRO RNG) players just let REAL DEAL poker players play were they want - and do some talking at the RD tables if they have so much to prove? If we have it all wrong?

Toms Real Deal Ta.jpg

11 - What if many till playing today feel the action is not right - but have no other options to go to? What if these players are "watching these boards" and pissed? What if they only play - because it's considered by them to be crap but still entertaining. (Only in a sick stomach way)

12 - What if bad beats are not bad beats at all - but rather - programmed expected beats? What then?

13 - What if it's as simple as money and wanting to take ALL OF IT off of the suckers.

14. - What if agencies that are supposed to oversee the integrity of these current online games are set up shams paid for by the billion dollar companies? (Paid off to report false reports) ***In the world of ENRON and such, I'll lean to the side of caution until I see different outcomes with the boards and wins/loses I'm seeing for years now. (over a long time of playing) even on Real Deal I'll ask these tough questions.. and have now for over three years. (I like their answers better is all up to this point.)

nuts..jpg

Not even a blind squirrel can lose ALL the time in poker guys. Players expect better hands to pay them off when it counts - and that's just not what I'm seeing and or hearing for over 5 years now. By over 50 players I respect and know to be above average winning live players.

What if... (Hell.. I can go on and on.)

If anyone wants to do a What if (pro RNG Players Questions) thread - go right ahead. Let's keep this thread ANSWERING these REAL DEAL What ifs alone. If we need more - We can start a What if (pro REAL DEAL PLAYERS QUESTIONS "2" - "3" ) etc. or members can just post there own new single WHAT IF threads.

A few "bonus" What ifs? What if I'm not crazy after all and I'm able to get all the players who left online back, and these players report the same outcomes about Real Deal playing better and more "real" as some are posting here already with small samples. (I'm talking "like many many players") What happens when they return or just give RD a fair shot, and they also agree with some of us, that Real Deal is in fact the only Real Deal poker game online? (That's actually 2 bonus questions isn't it.)

Toms Real Deal Ta.jpg

Who's with me! Real Deal Poker! Spread the word! Let's get more oversight for online poker games - Let's make online poker safer and proven safe - by playing on a site designed since day one (by poker players for poker players) for that very reason. Let's play poker on a site that allows players to question the integrity of the games offered and gives these players the ability to have ANY hand audited by an outside, third part security firm.

Adults only - Chill everyone! Breath and answer my what if's if you are PRO "rng" poker. Then watch this funny funny (comedy) video posted in the hot tub by forum member DirtyBurger - (Password if you need it is "hotstuff") Nothing will stop the underdogs at this point. At minimum, eventually, everyone will hear about Real Deal and how it's trying to make online poker safer and more fun for players the world over!

Funny RDP Spoof poker video starring Mel Gibson.

Are you with me? lol. (watch the 6 min video) so funny! (Picking on my tattoo.. lol) (Badass!) (Smurf) OMG! (Tears in my eyes) I can laugh at myself.. I wonder if the RNG crowd can? I wonder if they will post their full names with their replies.

Do all of us a favor and DO NOT respond to this thread unless you read the special rules of this thread. It's an answer them all or non at all deal.

So far I had to delete "2" one line replies. READ PEOPLE. This is a special THREAD.

Let me explain why It's an answer all or nothing thread. I feel our side needs to see rng players answers as a whole and not one at a time - to get the real quality picture in our heads and a much better idea on how they think and what makes them not want more security for online players. What makes them not want to play poker online with a Real Deck of playing cards (If it's proven fair and honest) Or maybe.. something else will happen, maybe we will "see something new" get a clearer picture as to how all of us have it so wrong.

I'm willing to think different ways - on any of this.. But I need this debate to be clutter free and without silly 3rd grader insults. Let's do this one and let's play some hard ball. It's not an easy one.. Take your time. Online poker is not going anywhere. There will be action for you when your done - I assure you. Hopefully with me on Real Deal Poker one day.

Quote

05-13-2010 , 05:05 PM

#1084

Got Nutz?

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,792

Ya I wondered how long until you stumbled upon that nugget Nfuego.

Did you guys see where Alan Boston got all pissed off at 2+2ers for saying he looked like an alien @ FTP? May be Allan could be the first Real Deal Pro!!! What a match.

Real Deal Poker where the hate for 2+2 can't get any greater!

*** Oh and my fav is ****

1 -What if some of the members here poking fun at the pro Gene Gioia (Real Deal) camp are paid to be here to cause trouble. (You can get kids, and some adults sadly, to do all sorts of underhanded, trouble causing stuff for very little, like a few entries into small ball online tourneys or 5 or 10 bucks thrown into an account from time to time.) What if their sole mission if to keep poker players from getting the truth.

Double edit***
How much do you loose at roulette? siguy? Are you Tom O'Tool from Real Deal?

Last edited by Got Nutz?; 05-13-2010 at 05:19 PM.

Quote

05-13-2010 , 05:07 PM

#1085

NFuego20

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 4,295

remember though, we don't say it's "rigged", we just say it's "not right".... cuz that's way different

Quote

05-13-2010 , 05:13 PM

#1086

siguy6819

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by spadebidder

Thanks, but seen all that weeks ago, I even asked him about it on his webcast. That’s when he said he couldn't speak about it (pending patent).

Quote

05-13-2010 , 05:14 PM

#1087

dlk9s

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22,499

I almost can't believe guys like this exist. I kind of wish I could live in the wonderful land inside his head.

Quote

05-13-2010 , 06:59 PM

#1088

ama0330

banned

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 8,280

I really hope that Tom guy sticks around to let us all know his thoughts when RDP burns to the ground. What will he do with that ludicrous tattoo?

Quote

05-13-2010 , 08:00 PM

#1089

99killed

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,191

Quote:

Originally Posted by IcyFlops

looks like a badbeat happened imo

lol at the dealer looking up as if to say "get me the fk outta here plzkthx!"

Quote

05-13-2010 , 08:56 PM

#1090

TheSquirrel1

self-banned

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 257

Once again a fun evening. Was going to play live but got lazy and played on RealDeal. Only saw two big pair match ups. Had AK 3 times. Won twice and lost one against dominated hands. Lost the one where I was 2 off the bubble, but that happens live too. Main thing is how it plays, and I like the way it plays. No continual suckouts for donks, no continual runner runner. Plays close to live imo. One freeroll didn't start and they just shared out the money to everyone. There is presumably a reason for keeping it small to start with. At least no one can complain about losing a lot of money because of software faults.

Makes a change to AA v KK v AK, QQ v AA, trip aces getting stuffed by quad nines on the river, runner runner for flush, straight or full house.

Keep up the hysterical posts kids.

Quote

05-13-2010 , 09:28 PM

#1091

99killed

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,191

u r a fkn ******

Last edited by 99killed; 05-13-2010 at 09:29 PM. Reason: hysterical post imo

Quote

05-13-2010 , 10:20 PM

#1092

Resistance

adept

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,011

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquirrel1

Take this blogwank to BBV please

Quote

05-13-2010 , 11:22 PM

#1093

Omaha Chris

old hand

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,235

Squirrel, you are a shill. You work for RDP in some capacity.

This is pathetically obvious.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

Quote

05-13-2010 , 11:51 PM

#1094

pooflinger

adept

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 850

whats the traffic like on rd today?

Quote

05-13-2010 , 11:52 PM

#1095

LVGambler

banned

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 4,884

Slippin.. no one caught this?

Quote

05-14-2010 , 12:15 AM

#1096

batair

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 16,802

Quote:

Originally Posted by pooflinger

whats the traffic like on rd today?

Quote

05-14-2010 , 12:59 AM

#1097

IcyFlops

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 570

Currently 8 players on 2 tables.
lol

Last edited by IcyFlops; 05-14-2010 at 01:01 AM. Reason: cos it is funnier that 2 are on .01/.02 and the other 6 on play money

Quote

05-14-2010 , 05:59 AM

#1098

spilari

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 600

Quote:

Originally Posted by LVGambler

Slippin.. no one caught this?

lol.
so the game check thingie actually works!

Quote

05-14-2010 , 07:32 AM

#1099

spadebidder

Actually Shows Proof

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,905

Quote:

Originally Posted by spilari

lol.
so the game check thingie actually works!

The fact that the system got in a state where it was about to deal from an invalid deck is very worrisome, and doesn't speak well for the "matrix". Also, it appears they roll back *after* players have acted. Neither of these things should ever happen.