clearly it would be impossible for him to "prove" that..which means that the other sites are as clean as oj/lance armstrong,do i have that about right according to your thinking?

well players have played millions of hands on Pokerstars/Full Tilt and not had a problem with "rigging" PTR records 95%+ of hands that go down and they havent found anything wrong with their RNGs.

but yeah sure "rigged until proven otherwise"

enjoy your terrible site with like 4 users.

How has the traffic been doing on RDP these days? Are they actually getting games started or are they still claiming it's super cool to have a site with 15 players online?

the traffic is atrocious,half of them were driven away by the forum guy and the rest by the disappointingly dubious software.

Makes me wonder if the site creator dude has realized that it's a mistake to ignore the vast majority of people loling at his idea. "They just don't get it. I'm right and the rest of the world is wrong. Time to profit!"

I love it when dumb and stubborn people lose money.

I can't believe Real Deal is still sending shills over here. It's like their marketing guy is from Bizarro World, where driving away potential customers is the goal.

Even if they accepted Americans, I wouldn't play there based on their history here. And I salivate at the thought of playing a room full of rigtards.

Looks like the PokerStars/Fool Tilt shills are getting upset that Real Deal shills are muscling in on their territory. All you shills should get along together - you've got a lot in common.

lol yeah, RealDeal is such a threat to the poker sites that pay me to shill the forums..... what ever will I do about that site that has one cash table going (at least during peak times).

fyp, do not underestimate the Power of Real Deal!!! They have added a half table in the last few weeks and plan to completely fill the second by 2012. RD is sky rocketing upward and onward.

Sounds like a 50% increase. I'd like to see FT or PS try to post that kind of increase.

They can't do it! RD is on the cutting edge of new money coming into their games. All other sites will bow down to Gene "The Boss" Ginoa when the Real Truth be told.

The big reveal is in about 10 minutes:

http://www.brighttalk.com/webcast/22088

I eagerly await learning how "the matrix" is better than an RNG. That is the actual claim on the webcast summary at the link above.

Clearly does not understand how RNG systems work.

1/1000 shot should never happen. LDO rigged

Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing As Kc Kd
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks Kh 989 99.90 1 0.10 0 0.00 0.999
Ah 4h 1 0.10 989 99.90 0 0.00 0.001

Watched the recording. Around 8:30 he explains that they use time as a seed. That's it they've made a rube goldberg device to get a time stamp as a seed for a random number generator. WhooHoo way to go guys you successfully reinvented the wheel...err RNG.

I did kinda simplify because the deck itself is also something of a seed. So, the deck plus the timestamp fed into an algorithm supplies the deck you'll see dealt. Pssh not really an enhancement IMO.

I don't see how that would put anyone's fears of riggedness at ease. They're just going to tell you "oh see this video of an order of cards you didn't get? Well we mixed that up and then gave you some other cards." What exactly does that prove?

Now I should also say at the same time that I think their system is probably sufficiently random enough that no one will crack the system and become a super user. I just don't see it as any better than the RNGs of other sites.

I'll have to watch it again, but the way I understood it, is that they have 2000 fixed permutation formulas (and Gene called them formulas in the discussion) that they put the original shuffled deck through, creating 2000 variations with that deck. And those are not random, as they have to be auditable to trace the cards from the original deck all the way to what was dealt. Which of the 2000 gets used might be randomly selected (the time seed), that was not clear to me. This is the same information they gave out long ago, when they suggested what a few of those permutations might be.

This seems more subject to manipulation than a regular RNG, which is what I've said all along. Certainly at best it doesn't improve anything. They take a truly random shuffle (produced by their machine) and then they manipulate it some more programmatically to create 2000 computer variants of it. A regular RNG takes a truly random shuffle, and does nothing else to it. Obviously both could be rigged after the shuffle from the inside, but the RDP system much more easily since they have a stored bank of known cards to select from. So what is the advantage?

After viewing part of it again, he also said they use each of those 2000 permutations 8 times, so they get 16K from each physical deck. So apparently up to 8 of every 2000 decks dealt are identical. He said they can never go to the same table, as well.

This is a lot different from random dealing, where 2 identical decks have probably never been dealt in the history of the world.

Maybe I misunderstood and they use 16K different permutations.

I had to actually do some work so I haven't watched the whole thing but if true that's pretty bad. Why in the world would they use each permutation 8 times? That really shows poor judgment. He went through the whole thing about how a thousand people shuffling decks for a hundred years wouldn't get a repeat of the same deck. Yet they repeat decks 8 times every 16 seconds or whatever he said it took for their machines to come up with a new deck. Not good at all.

lol, hilarious. Thanks for the cliffs Spade!

Yeah, I didn't get that whole 8 x 2,000 thing. Like you, spadebidder, I'll have to watch again.

As DrMickHead said, it looks like the deck order is determined by applying the results of two random events (the physical deck shuffle plus the time stamp) to something non-random (the 2,000 or 16,000 or however many preset permutations). Unlikely to be cracked, but certainly no more random than any other poker room's RNG.

Why would anyone listen to spade, he loves the rng so much I am sure he would marry one if it was legal. Isn't it all the same, either it's manipulated by the owner or it isn't. The differences in rng and this matrix may not be much anyway so really we just have to trust whichever site we decide to play on that they do not rig it. Hopefully spade will do some long winded study on the RD deal when people ship him enough data as he did on the rng.

As it is impossible to tell whether a photon will pass through or be reflected, the resulting data is a totally random string of ones and zeros, or binary code.

Can anyone post the actual Gioia quotes regarding 2000 permutations 8 times, etc.

Or is it a rambling, 45 minute mumble?

I'll transcribe some of it later tonight if no one has by then. You also have to listen to the Q&A, where he says he won't answer a question about how they create the permutations, and basically says he'll show you his formulas when you show him the formulas from an RNG. It was pretty ignorant.