I didnt ask why I wasnt a millionaire yet.What I did ask was for some constructive reasonable rationale logical common sensical help and advice on how to turn the bad run around.And I appreciate the few who have done that.And I wasnt claiming to be Chris Fergusson in disguise.And your semi right that Chris Fergusson would not post that move,because it isnt right to make that kind of move,except and for if there were nuances that justified the move,and even then he probably wouldnt post it,because he wouldnt want people to misunderstand and do that kind of move,or to misunderstand and think he was a terrible player(although he could probably care less what people like you think about him)

And so you need to stop putting words in my mouth that I didnt say like you sayiny why I asked why I wasnt a millionare yet.I didnt say that at all.

Also I explained the nuances of the situation.But you ignore nuances,and say that its never ever ok to do it period,nuances or no nuances.

The thing is it was ok to limp Q9 on the button.

And it was ok to make a semi bluff on the flop to try and pick up the pot,since I had been playing very tight,and since I had outs and since I hadnt bluffed or semi bluffed before in the tourney up til that stage in the tourney.

And then when they called,and the 9 came my thought process was this:I didnt think they were slowplaying a made straight on the flop,and based on previous play I had observed,I thought they were on the bottom to middle pair crap kicker.Because the player and other players had shown that they would call if they had anything like a pair,etc,even against a obvious full house,flushes etc.And so because of that I didnt think that they flopped the straight and thought they were calling on bottom to middle pair,Based on previous observations.So I thought there was only say a 10 to 20% chance that they had straight draw and only a 5 to 10% chance they had Straight already on the flop.And only a 3 to 7% chance they had 2 pair trips and were slowplaying.And so there was about a 73% chance that I was good based on previous observation.


And I had them easily covered.And so I thought if I shove here,if they are on the draw they might call me and pay me off,based on how I had seen them play earlier.And I thought if they are on hand like pocket 10's to AA they might fold,even though it wasnt likely they had those holdings,unless they were slowplaying and unless they limped 1010-AA preflop,which was unlikely.

And I thought that if I shoved they might call me with bottom or middle pair,based on what I had seen earlier.And even if the worst case scenario were to happen and they had the straight even though I thought that wasnt likely,that I had outs to make a straight myself.And also they might have a low straight and might fold because they think I have the higher straight.

And also I thought that because of my fold equity,if I bully them,and they fold,then I can show,and they will think I am crazy,and that will get me paid off,and if they have the straight and they call me,and I dont make a straight,and I lose,I can always use my skill edge to build my stack back up and then they will pay me off because they will think I am crazy,when I am not.

And so there were many nuances that went into this move.And this is a move I hardly almost never ever make.And I wouldnt have done it,unless and for the reasons,nuances,I said as to why I did it.

And as was seen my read,thought process based on previous observations was right.

And also another thing I am a player who tends to trust his reads,observations,nuances,and let those factor into the decisions I make.

Also it will probably be almost forever before I make another move like that again.

And also I certainly wouldnt tell people to go around making that move all the time.

But the limping in with the Q9 on the button was definately ok to do.

Poasting in epic thread.
Hai Mike as poker players we have to accept that bad beats and downswongs are inevitable just keep playing good poker making the correct decisions and eventually we come through the otherside.
Having said that i've not read any of your posts as they hurt my eyes so i might be way off.

Point taken,about my wordiness.I know I am wordy.

I will try to be less wordy,but easier said then done.

Also point taken about my bad run.

Also sorry about the HH that is hard to read,for some strange reason when I copy paste the HH section of the HH notepad file from Cake Poker,the HH converter wont convert it for some strange reason.I have asked for help about that,and nobody has offered help on that.

Playing in the $100 freeroll,or will at least try to if I can register fast enough.

If anyone wants to watch and then give me constructive helpful comments in either here or by PM,it would be appreciated.

Also I might make a vid of it.

And I will post HH's here as well

I think OP is an epic troll! That said, could we have Dr.Fergusson in the house please?

edit - @ OP. I think you are obviously posting here for help. Being abrasive with the people whom you're asking for help from is not going to help your cause. If you don't like someone's posts, it's easy to ignore them. I mean, if you do value the green book/pro knowledge more, then I don't see any reason for this post in the first place. GL at the tables.

well I am only a troll to those who troll and flame.

As far as the Q9 Q10 limp on the button thing that the book,articles,say its ok to do,I was proving my point about that in the way I was,because others were making there point about the limping Q9,Q10 thing in a very smart ass,sarcastic,trolling like,flaming like,attacking like way.

like "you suck" "you suck" because you limp in Q9 is hardly what most would call constructive helpful comments.

And its not about always valuing the books,pros,more.Even though I do value that more,those things dont cover every situation and nuance,etc.Also its possible to misapply or misunderstand what the coaches,pros,books,videos,articles are saying.

And so if someone explains,discusses and makes a point about why that may be so,that can be very helpful.

Also there are going to be things not covered by those coaches,pros,books,articles,vids,etc,that can be discussed as well.

And so just because I dispute a point someone makes,because of that the coaches,pros,books,articles,vids,etc,say about that 1 point,doesnt mean that I dont welcome constructive discussion, conversation about that disputed point,and also doesnt mean that I will dispute the very next point that brought up.

But for th most part,most of the comments have been typical smart ass,trolling,sarcastic,attacking,bashing,trolling, flaming,comments.

There have been a few good comments and I welcome those.

So you really need to pay attention to whats really going on before you jump to the wrong conclusions you jumped to

Now if someone says something like "Mike I think you should do this or dont do that,because it would help your play", or "I think you could have played the hand better better and here is why blah blah,etc etc",or after I ask a question like "but what about this or that,or what this person,pro,book say?" if someone says something like "well I think your misunderstanding or misapplying that,and here is why,blah blah,etc etc"

those are the helpful kind of comments and discussions,conversations I and others would want.

Not much to tell,very card dead saw about 16% of hands and flops.was down to 2000 chips blinds 30/60

I will have to find the Ftp HH's but I either limped in or raised,and went to flop with A10,or J10 suited hand(not sure) on the button.

Hit the nut straight and flush draw.And since he likely had top pair or 2 pair,and since he had only a 10% chance to win on the flop and turn,and since I was so shortstacked and didnt want to chase him out,I small betted 250 on flop,and 500 on turn and 500 on river,pot comitting myself on the river,he reraises all in,I call,and he hit his boat on the river.

But I would play the hand that way every time I am shortstacked in order to get paid off because 10% chance to get beat by a fullhouse,is worth getting paid off and I was right he would have paid 500 more on the river if he hadnt hit his boat.

I thought he would do that,and so I asked him after I got beat out if he would hve paid me 500 more on the river,and he said he would have,but would have folded to a all in by me on the river.

2000 with 30/60 is not really shortstacked imo.

Secondly you really should know what your cards were and what your actions were. I mean you really can't say it was AT or JT or you limped or raised. It's always one or the other, since if you folded you wouldn't be talking about this hand :P.

Thirdly if you could elaborate more reasoning on why limping Q9/QT works OTB, then it might help your cause. From what you mention, you seem to be playing 1$ MTTs or freerolls online. As far as I know people limp with practically anything and can outdraw you. Personally in such low buy-in tournaments, I really don't see too much advantage in limping, unless you could convince me otherwise.

Why do you keep showing your hands? Or is it just the HHs that shows it this way?

Yes your right that it would be better to know wat the cards are.But I have to find the HH from Full Tilt before I an do that.And thats takes some time to dig thru all the HH to find that,and so I posted what I posted to tie things over until then.

And your right 2000 chips when the blinds are 30/60 or 40/80 isnt shortstacked.But my stack was shortstacked in comparison to all the 5 k 7k 9k 11k 13k 17k stacks at the table,and so if I didnt get some more chips,I wasnt going to get respect,and I would end up in a situation of everybody calling a all in preflop or postflop to try to bust me out and that would drive my variance way up.

Your right semi right about the limping thing,there is no value in limping most of the the time.The exception to that,is if you are playing a hand that is otherwise not playable by raising,or not smart to raise,or not foldable preflop with no one raising.And where there is enough pot odds so that if your hand hits big,or gives you multiple combo drawing possibilities that if they hit,will get you a lot of chips possibly if you play it right to extract the most value you can,or that if your hand doesnt hit big,you can also escape the hand postflop and fold.

An example of this would be set mining. You limp in 22 in late position after all the limpers limping in front of you.Why?because postflop if you hit a set of trips 2's,and or hit a full house,you can get paid off big,while also being able to escape set over set,if your a good eough player,and if your not,its still worth the risk,and if your 22 doesnt hit,then you can always fold.

Well the same principle applies to hands like A10 AJ KQ QJ Q10 KJ K10,J10 109 98 Q9 also suited versions of those hands etc.

Those hands have a lot of potential hit a big hands on the board,that the fish,donks,will pay you off big on.And if your hand doesnt hit well,or not at all its easy to escape from,if your the right kind of player

Now you might ask why A10 AJ KQ are on the list of limping hands.If I am under gun and or in early position,or on the SB,I dont want to raise those hands and then have to play those hands out of position.Also I dont want to raise and then lose that raise to a reraiser who may have a bigger hand.I also dont want to fold,because I might dominate someone,postflop,and the hands are just barely big enough hands that folding them,preflop against no raises or a small 2 x BB raise isnt a option,and are definate folding hands vs big raises,all ins,preflop.The rare exception is depending on the situation.

But yet at the same time,those are hands you should see the flop with if you can for cheap,or for by raising with them in the right button,cutoff,late positions,in the right positions,situations.Because if you hit top pair of Aces or 2 pair or trips,you can get paid off by donks,fish,because the reason that nobody will expect someone to limp a big A with a 10 or J kicker,so if that hits good,they wont think your holding that,and so the donks and fishes and even some good players might pay you off because of that.

But if you have A10-AJ-KQ in late position,you want to raise not limp.The other hands like KJ,K10,QJ to 98 are hands that you want to limp on the button,cutoff,with limpers limping in front to give you pot odds,otherwise you fold them.

Again the reason you do so is that you can get paid off big,if those hands hit big,and can fold if they dont.

Yes playing that way is a little tiny bit risky,but its acceptable risk.Here is a beakdown of the risk,if you limp in with these hands in the right siutations,with the right pot odds and limpers in front,and in the right poker position,then lets say you do that say 100 times,about 30 times you will make a big draw,or multiple combo draws,or hit the board big time,and at last 17 times out of that,you will get paid off big,vs 70 times out of those 100 times,you wont hit nothing,fold,etc.And say 50 times you hit the flop small an either make a little,or fold,or value call only lose only a little tiny bit.And about 35 times you hit good like top pair,and you either make some to a lot,check,carefully raise,semi bluff,etc,or you call and only lose some or fold.
And 17 times you hit the flop big and you dont get paid off.And 8 or 9 times you hit very big or just big,and get paid off very big.And about 3 times out of 100 you hit very big,and your opponent hits bigger,and out of those 3 times 1 time you lose some to lots,2 times you pay off the other player and go bust big time.

Now this is not exact,but reasonable,rationally close.And so because of this as you can see,limping in with these hands in th right limited situations in the right poker positions,with the right number of limp ins and pot odds to pay you off,and if youte right type of player who can play this way,then limping in with these hands in these limited conditions is ok.

Also I myself have witnessed that when I play this way I do profit,and I dont lose very much or often playing this way.Others might be different.It all just depends really.

Also this is all no according to just me.A lot of profitable poker players play this way online,and coach this,and make vids of this,and post about this being the rght way to play on this forum and others like it.And the pros like Chris Fergusson,and others in books,articles say this is the standard way to play.

Its the HH's that shows it that way,and that I cant get the converter to convert the HH's from Cake Poker.I copy paste the HH's hand section from the HH Cake Poker Notepad file that Cake Poker sends me whenever I play a tourny at Cake Poker,but the converter when I copy paste,and click the convert button,gives me a error message and doesnt convert the HH.

Now I have asked for help about this,but no one ha offered help on the converter problem.

how does he have time to type so much.

this thread needs more pics!

this

Thread is 11 hours old now and gosh that is a lot of text already!

Slowly turning into a mikeal dh well.........

Is this areamans gimmick? Oh wait I think they proved this guy was real in another thread...

Mikeal you should get to know Bandichime because he has a spreadsheet that I think would be of great assistance to you.

lol amazing, I was thinking the other day when mike would pop back in to say hi.

Naughty boy. You were in the hijack, not OTB!

Please, I would really like an explanation of why are you limping with J8o, or Q9o, and please don't say "because Chris Ferguson told you so". If you want a piece of advice about those hands, here it is: STOP OVERLIMPING WITH TRASH. You were only the 2nd limper and if anything, you could've raised PF to take it down right there. Also, the turn shove is only gonna get called by hands that have you beat, do you see?

If you really are looking forward to learn and become a winning player in this game, you should pay more attention to what posters say in this forum. If you are coming here to complain only and disregard the comments of people more accomplished than you, just because you read the OMG FULL TILT POKER PRO TIPS, then you shouldn't be here in the first place.

Having said that, a drunk monkey with no arms can beat the micro's. ESPECIALLY the $1 SnG's and the Freerolls. Haven't you thought of the possibility, the mere possibility, that you are just playing bad, instead of running bad?

What you say about having a 'bad beat memory' is just bull**** imo. Every poker player tends to remember the bad beats and forget about the beats they handed out or the hands they absolutely misplayed. I suggest you review your HH's in the biggest pots you lost, and see why you lost them.

Lastly, you'll never get simpathy from a strategy forum if you keep flaming every poster that tries to help you.

/thread

You won this hand but it was played wrong.....Thats just way to spewy...Your M is around 22..If you get called here your way behind..Im shocked that the duke didnt call yo with his chip stack after limping..Also get poker tracker or start keeping better records..

and op- the full tilt tournament book is bad. I have read approx 20 poker books and it ranks near the bottom with all of cloutier's books. Read Winning Poker Tournaments: One hand at a time, Kill Everyone, and obv HoH.

and losing 150 is pennies, you're really just going to piss people off posting this b/c for some thats less than 1 tournament.

I think this thread has to be a level, but if not it is hilarious!

LOL WTH??

I first realized I could win money at poker when I started folding sets in OBVIOUS set over set situations in freerolls. No one would ever risk their tournament life on a dry board with worse than bottom set in a freeroll.

LOL!

mike gimmick account is that you?

I think Mike needs to learn how to use adjectives....

kinda makes the thread for me...some epic advanced hand samples too