I think you're not exactly an unbiased messenger and maybe you should go find a publication that has this "consensus" written down to show us.

This answers my question perfectly, thank you!

I would think this is about as inconvenient as throwing out all my liquids and taking off my shoes to go through security in the first place.

Airports are hell, if security rolled up on me departing a plane I'd simply do it. The whole experience is a hellhole, what's the difference of being inconvenienced one more time before going home?

I mean, a few years after 9/11 my dumb ass got pulled out of line every time for a "random check". I think most able-bodied males did during those few years. Shrug.

Was that an Asian dude? The outrage!

I have to stop at paranoia, because that is not a diagnosis that is reliable about a diverse group like white people.

I'm not in the business much of telling what should be done, but I have said listening and learning are what contributes to making a worthy ally. I stand by that those can be done.

But like, in the 1960s, these "self hating" white liberals "blaming everyone's problems on white racism" were kinda correct, weren't they?

In the 1960s, do you think conservatives agreed or disagreed with that assessment?

Is it really redirection of resources?

So, when we look at areas like Chinatowns across America, we know the people who live there are desperately poor. They are actually some of the poorest people in the country, from what I remember (please feel free to dispute if you have the data). Do they get preferential treatment? How do their kids tend to do?

This is a very good post, thank you for sharing your insights einbert.
Especially the last part.

I am absolutely in favor of putting resources towards excellent public schools in Chinatown and free public university education for those kids. And the policy I'm talking about applies to everyone, it's not preferential treatment. I'm talking about treating everyone with basic human dignity and at the same time preparing us for a robust and powerful tech-based economy in the future.

60s were a much different time. Things have gotten much, much better since then. The fight has mostly been won. The same with feminism.

What, right now, do you think is the greatest obstacle to black success? I don't believe it's white racism.

You're kind of missing the point. I'm saying they are really poor people there yet their children tend to do fine even with a lack of public resources. Why?

Let me see if I can encapsulate this correctly and fairly.
White supremacy is probably the wrong term; perhaps lets call it "white culture" wanting "other cultures" to conform to the norms of "white culture".

Evidence of such advocacy include the ideas about the black community that Bill O'Reilly and Don Lemon agree on, the ideas that Bill Cosby espoused in the Pound Cake speech, or that Thomas Sowell would discuss on the racial disparities of today.

Whereas your view would be more akin to Ta-Nehisi Coates' rebuttal of Bill Cosby, that the black community faces special problems that need to be addressed (police and judiciary). Further, many people are so whitewashed by "white culture" or have successfully conformed to "white culture", that they fail to recognize these problems, and don't think the solutions suggested by O'Reilly, Lemon, Cosby, Sowell, or the AME church are correct because white people in the heads of institution are still going to be racist, and all people are doing is mimicing white culture, but will never be white and will therefore not be accepted.

Is this a fair understanding of your position?

Okay so back up for a second. You said that the AME church believes in taking personal responsibility and investing in your own education. I completely agree with that. At the same time, I believe the Ta-Nehisi side of the argument, specifically that public resources are not being evenly distributed and we all need to fight for that in all public spheres.

I am a huge believer in education and I believe we can create a whole new generation of talented coders and robotics engineers and I.T. workers, but those kids need the resources from K-12 and the ability to go through the University levels of education as well if we want to give them the best chance possible to succeed. I'm saying society and the individual play a role. It's a theory called the interpersonal theory of society--I've been influenced partially by Japanese culture where I was lucky enough to live for a while. The late famous Christian author M. Scott Peck was a big advocate of this idea of society. I'm an atheist but I happen to think he made a whole lot of sense on the issue.

The whole thing is, everybody pays taxes. Everybody should get access to a good public education all the way through the university level, and it would benefit our entire society as well--stimulation of the economy through the ability of the working and middle classes to spend more money is a serious thing!

Things had gotten better between the Civil War and the 1960s, though, hadn't they? The fight had mostly been won!

^ This is something we know to be stupid today but some people absolutely believed in the 1960s. My point is, don't you need some historical perspective (the kind that nobody will have on the 2010s until decades from now) to make sweeping statements like "the fight has mostly been won"?

I don't either. I think the most direct obstacles are wealth inequality and housing segregation. The connection with white racism, for me, is that...
- both of these problems have roots in white racism
- the solutions for both of these problems will be obstructed by white racism

Wil, when until very recently African Americans couldn't get mortgages, go to the best schools etc they didn't have the same opportunities. They could work way harder than you or I, but that wouldn't matter. Now, the mortgage thing ripped off unknown amounts of African Americans and fleeced them for unknown millions in lost wealth up until basically the 80s.

What, exactly, is missing at this point from the black community in terms of how whites treat them? I view this in the same terms as feminism 3.0. I don't see where we are going with either. Whites are climbing over each other to apologize to blacks for everything, just as women are screaming over everybody about a fake wage gap or the evils of the male patriarchy. What, exactly, do we as a society have to do to fix either issue?


OK, and how do we address them?

I've been posting some suggestions both personal behavior-wise and policy-wise throughout the thread. Just scroll up to see.

• -Universal healthcare
• -Universal university education
• -National living minimum wage
• -New bill of voting rights including an end to Electoral College and gerrymandering, and voter suppression efforts such as those in North Carolina and Georgia
• -New bill of civil rights
• -An end to the national mass incarceration policy and the War on Drugs
• -An end to all felony disenfranchisement immediately

Well, from my perspective all I see is the portrayal of all whites being evil and they need to sit down and shut up. When it gets to the point where Justin Timberlake is apologizing on Twitter for a noninsult, I have to question WTF is going on here.

This is, to put it kindly, a pipedream.

Equal job opportunities, for one. And that's not even getting into incarceration.

Uh, no, they aren't. A little under half the country just voted in Trump as president because, as you and other "SJW"-haters have told it, they're furious at all this apologizing and political correctness that they perceive as happening.

With the national debt of the US being at current levels this is completely unrealistic.

Pipe dream or no, please notice that these ideas are not related to feeling warm and fuzzy inside or anybody feeling a victim or being virtue shamed. They are directly related to resources and future outcomes and they are all things that are within our grasp if we fight for them.

When did we become the country of "that's too hard!" What about American exceptionalism? What about our amazing Constitution that allows us to supposedly respond to any situation with agility, grace, and intelligence? What about the intelligence and temerity of the American citizen? Pshaw, sir! Don't tell me America can't. America can, but only if America fights for it.

"American exceptionalism" has become "Putin's a killer? There's a lot of killers, what, you think our country's so innocent?"

From those pictures it looks like Delta is intentionally disenfranchising black flyers.

Yes, I know white liberals really love to cite that study. The problem is that it's flawed. The names used in that study may denote class as much as race. There have been other studies trying to just cut it down to race and it wasn't as conclusive. Also, a study in Canada brought back discrimination in Asian last names. I'm on my phone so I can't link but google "resumes black names" and check out the Chicago Tribune article. They did it with Hispanic names and did not see a difference. Things might not be as cut and dried as you think.

It was a part of it, absolutely. PC is to the point of idiocy.

FYI: I have deleted a couple of personal-attacky posts from earlier today. Let's try to keep the Content threads about the content of posts and not about who posted it.