!!! Gay conservative Milo Yiannopoulos named LGBTQ Nation's 2016 Person of the Year - Page 72 - Politics version 7.0 -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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!!! Gay conservative Milo Yiannopoulos named LGBTQ Nation's 2016 Person of the Year

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Page 72 of 216

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Last

02-09-2017 , 09:49 AM

#1776

5ive

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 6,766

But wait spr srs biz time:

Can somebody tell wil that if he spent less time on 2p2 spewing all this gobbledygook and more time invested in his daughter's brain development, he won't have to worry about school choice or any of that other privileged bull****.

02-09-2017 , 09:58 AM

#1777

FoldnDark

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,930

Quote:

Originally Posted by The REAL Trolly

Trump? Bannon?

Much closer, imo, if for no other reason than they have so much power. Not sure if either is an actual fascist, or if it's time for insurrection, but let's keep our eyes on those guys and protest their foolishness.

02-09-2017 , 09:59 AM

#1778

The REAL Trolly

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 1,603

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5ive

He's too busy not reading books for all that stuff.

02-09-2017 , 10:29 AM

#1779

spanktehbadwookie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,374

Quote:

Originally Posted by The REAL Trolly

Trump? Bannon?

"Republicans" covers the whole cabal.

The "alts" are probably just going to try and morph identities trying to outrun their prejudice and egocentricity. Why be distracted by them much when the elephant is now openly wearing a big racist target?

02-09-2017 , 10:56 AM

#1780

13ball

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 12,912

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordJvK

The elision from Milo to Spencer is ridiculous and people need to stop doing that. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a Nazi.

Milo called Richard Spencer an intellectual and separated him from the "1488ers."

Here Milo argues that the alt-right cares about "western supremacy" rather than "white supremacy." But "western supremacy" is just what racist so-called intellectuals are calling their movement these days.

He also claims the alt-right cares about equality, freedom and democracy. It's utter bull****. Richard Spencer coined the term alt-right and Milo is arguing that the alt-right isn't racist. Give me a ****ing break.

02-09-2017 , 11:38 AM

#1781

TheMadcap

adept

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 790

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13ball

Here Milo argues that the alt-right cares about "western supremacy" rather than "white supremacy." But "western supremacy" is just what racist so-called intellectuals are calling their movement these days.

As far as I can tell, this cuts to the heart of a lot of the disagreement.

Are you a moral relativist? Do you think that there can be right and wrong answers to moral questions?

I don't necessarily mean to single you out, these questions are for anyone who thinks that fighting for certain so-called "western values" is somehow automatically racist.

02-09-2017 , 11:47 AM

#1782

5ive

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 6,766

and there it is

it's just a matter of time with all these clowns

02-09-2017 , 11:56 AM

#1783

TheMadcap

adept

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 790

There what is exactly?

If you start with the assumption that anyone who disagrees with you has some deep moral failing, confirmation bias will no doubt get you to there eventually. So congrats on your feelings of moral superiority, I guess.

We could get a lot farther if you just tried to tell me where I am wrong...

Last edited by TheMadcap; 02-09-2017 at 12:07 PM.

02-09-2017 , 12:13 PM

#1784

dereds

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMadcap

Are you a moral relativist? Do you think that there can be right and wrong answers to moral questions?

It is reasonable to judge acts according to some conception of moral realism where there are right and wrong answers to moral questions and judge actors according to the background beliefs of the society in which they live.

02-09-2017 , 12:21 PM

#1785

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,945

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5ive

Please don't bring people family into it in away that's likely to be insulting, attacking, trolling or annoying to them.

02-09-2017 , 12:26 PM

#1786

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMadcap

It's funny that America is a country where so many different people looked to as the land of opportunity and a place where if you work hard you can succeed, but the children of those people grow up to think it's just a big old white supremacist club and their parents made a huge mistake.

Must have been false advertisement or something.

02-09-2017 , 12:28 PM

#1787

13ball

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Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 12,912

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMadcap

It's not "automatically racist." The alt-right does not give a **** about democracy or equality or freedom. Not even a little bit.

Here's something from Radix Journal, formerly alternativeright.com:

Quote:

Martin Luther King Jr. day always serves as a day of reflection for American identitarians. It is a day devoted to ideals much different than the ones we hold dear, and serves as a microcosm of the values and figures celebrated today.

Spencer on MLK:

Quote:

Martin Luther King Jr., a fraud and degenerate in his life, has become the symbol and cynosure of White Dispossession and the deconstruction of Occidental civilization.

We must overcome!

These are devout and devoted racists. So when Milo says "this is about western values" he is completely full of **** and anybody paying any attention at all knows this immediately.

Here is writer Vox Day, an influential voice in the alt right movement:

Quote:

The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.

That point quotes the fourteen words:

Quote:

Fourteen Words, or simply 14, is a reference to a white supremacist and white nationalist slogan: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children."

These people are not fighting for "western values." They say that they are, but they are lying. Milo is lying too.

02-09-2017 , 12:28 PM

#1788

TheMadcap

adept

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 790

Quote:

Originally Posted by dereds

I, of course, agree with that.

But in that case it would be reasonable for people who believe they are closer to the right answers to certain moral questions to want to protect those beliefs through things like restrictions on immigration etc. and it would not be automatically racist to do so.

I will add a caveat that I am not even talking about my own beliefs on immigration. I am merely pushing back on the trend to use the terms "western values" and "white supremacy" interchangeably.

02-09-2017 , 12:35 PM

#1789

13ball

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Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 12,912

It's kind of amazing how easily duped some of the right-leaning people itf are when it comes to the alt right.

But it's way more depressing than amazing.

02-09-2017 , 12:37 PM

#1790

13ball

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Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 12,912

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMadcap

I am merely pushing back on the trend to use the terms "western values" and "white supremacy" interchangeably.

Your complaint is with the white nationalists who are doing this. I love western values. That's why I don't want people referring to their bigoted beliefs with that label.

02-09-2017 , 12:38 PM

#1791

spanktehbadwookie

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Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,374

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMadcap

Supremacy is better than what? How?

02-09-2017 , 12:40 PM

#1792

TheMadcap

adept

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 790

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13ball

It's not "automatically racist." The alt-right does not give a **** about democracy or equality or freedom. Not even a little bit.

Here's something from Radix Journal, formerly alternativeright.com:

Spencer on MLK:

These are devout and devoted racists. So when Milo says "this is about western values" he is completely full of **** and anybody paying any attention at all knows this immediately.

Here is writer Vox Day, an influential voice in the alt right movement:

That point quotes the fourteen words:

These people are not fighting for "western values." They say that they are, but they are lying. Milo is lying too.

I will not defend Richard Spencer. He is an *******. Plenty of people in the at-right have intentions that I find disgusting and dangerous.

I will, however, push back on the claim that Milo is just pushing for white supremacy. Where is this coming from? The video you posted certainly doesn't convince me of that.

02-09-2017 , 12:40 PM

#1793

dereds

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMadcap

But in that case it would be reasonable for people who believe they are closer to the right answers to certain moral questions to want to protect those beliefs through things like restrictions on immigration etc. and it would not be automatically racist to do so.

I'm not sure what threat exists to those beliefs by allowing immigration. The Pew polls most often cited by those opposing immigration by Muslims for instance demonstrate that the views of the migrant are likely to change with immigration and I see no evidence that the values of the country into which they immigrate change.

The other problem is that morality is pretty complex and citing moral deficiencies is often just a cloak to advocate against immigration, unless the person believes in some form of moral relativism that people from outside ones culture don't count.

02-09-2017 , 12:53 PM

#1794

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

If we called it "American values" instead of "western values", I wonder if people would react differently?

Because, you know, racist.

02-09-2017 , 12:54 PM

#1795

13ball

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 12,912

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMadcap

I will not defend Richard Spencer. He is an *******. Plenty of people in the at-right have intentions that I find disgusting and dangerous.

Richard Spencer IS central to the alt-right. He coined the term.

And this is from Milo's own article dissecting the alt-right movement:

Quote:

The media empire of the modern-day alternative right coalesced around Richard Spencer during his editorship of Taki’s Magazine. In 2010, Spencer founded AlternativeRight.com, which would become a center of alt-right thought.

Quote:

I will, however, push back on the claim that Milo is just pushing for white supremacy. Where is this coming from? The video you posted certainly doesn't convince me of that.

Watch the video again. When asked about an ascendant alt-right, Milo claims it would be "fun." A movement whose intellectual center was described by Richard Spencer will be "fun" if it gains power? Milo's idea of fun is pretty damn sick.

02-09-2017 , 12:57 PM

#1796

13ball

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Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 12,912

And of course he's outright lying about the alt-right caring about equality and democracy instead of white nationalism.

02-09-2017 , 01:04 PM

#1797

TheMadcap

adept

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 790

You and Milo are clearly defining the alt-right in different ways. It seems that you think he is mischaracterizing the alt-right intentionally and for really sinister reasons and I question that assumption.

I think he bends the truth more towards sensationalism rather than for evil reasons.

02-09-2017 , 01:11 PM

#1798

TheMadcap

adept

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 790

Quote:

Originally Posted by dereds

In America, I don't think it's an issue at all really. America is too big and any immigration would be slow enough.

In Europe, I could see how there could be more problems at least in theory but I admittedly haven't looked into it much.

Though it seems worth mentioning that there could be reasons to think that the pew study you mention might not apply to conditions where the level of immigration increases substantially.

02-09-2017 , 01:20 PM

#1799

13ball

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Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 12,912

Either way he is defending the alt-right, a group that he himself notes revolves around an avowed racist. I don't care if he's doing it for his own profit or because he actually believes it.

He is definitely deliberately misrepresenting the alt right in that CNBC video. He says that they are for "freedom, equality, that kind of thing." But when he wrote an article about the alt right he never mentioned those things.

And this goes to one of the problems with right-wing discourse. There are these new terms that are ill-defined: SJW, alt-right, etc. The definitions shift based on what argument they want to make.