I've started to read some alt right writers lately. Seems to me that if you want to be an informed citizen you should try to understand what your political opponents believe, and that is usually best done by reading them directly. Isn't that just basic civics?

Nearly everyone seems to agree that the alt right has something to do with white nationalism (which they'll sometimes distinguish from white supremacy). For instance, Richard Spencer, who originally coined the term, is the head of the National Policy Institute, which describes itself thusly (NSFW?): "NPI is an independent organization dedicated to the heritage, identity, and future of people of European descent in the United States, and around the world."

Do you not think "white nationalism" is an accurate description?

I'm wasn't talking about the Trump administration or his supporters. I was talking about a section of what is being called the alt-right, namely two people, Richard Spencer and Vox Day (a gamer gate guy). From what I've read, they both identify as alt-right and as white nationalists, and they have a substantial following.

I believe they do support Trump, but you're right, that doesn't mean Trump, his administration or a large percent of his supporters are white nationalists.

I think it's nationalism, by many people who happen to be white. And I agree with them, just as someone who is gay and Jewish, like Milo does.

I don't want a country with no borders and and jobs fleeing with no one caring. It never sat right with me. There is also a long term threat of islam. When they say they will take over with birth rates instead of weapons, I take them at their word.

Racism isn't part of their agenda, and I'm pretty much on board with the rest of it. When they start doing racist stuff, I'll drop my support immediately.

My biggest hope for this administration is to help the black community, to do something about all the people being killed across the country. I know no one will believe me when I say that because I'm somehow viewed as a racist, but I live in a city where 300-400 people are murdered a year. More than anything, I want that to stop.

There is a distinction, though, and that should be recognized. Just on the basis of border security, anyone who is racist or pro white is going to be supporting Trump. In fact, anyone racist is supporting any Republican, in general.

Trump's rhetoric seemed to fire up a lot of them. I don't blame him for it.

you and fly can't seem to type a sentence without cursing. when you call others hateful you are projecting yourself onto them. all this stuff you pull from thin air about bigotry is the closest you can get to self reflection. it's totally twisted and i feel sorry you have to live like that.

take care and get some rest

People like Kerowo and Fly seem to be sad people. Maybe they will find some peace one day.

Do you need a safe space from rough language?

Lmao! Another soul read from the supporter of punching children in the head.

Yeah, I just find this confusing. Richard Spencer doesn't just happen to be white, that is central to his political agenda. As I quoted above, his political organization is dedicated to the "heritage, identity, and future of people of European descent..." I am pretty sure that "people of European descent" is a synonym for "white people." I'm pretty sure that Richard Spencer is a significant person in the alt right (I could have also mentioned here Jared Taylor or Steve Sailor). Where am I wrong about this?

I also hope for this. The decrease in violent crime over the last 20 years has been a real triumph for the US and I hope it continues.

No, it's a pattern across Western countries.

Lowering crime is not zero sum. Every country can win.

Except the US, which still has four times the murder rate of any other Western democracy because they won't get rid of the Second Amendment. And exceptionalist statements like 'It's a triumph for the US' when in fact it's a general trend don't help.

Okay.

You aren't, when it comes to him in particular, I suppose. I have no issue with restricting Muslim immigration. Make no mistake, small numbers or non-muslim middle easterners are fine. Large groups of Muslims coming into this country would be an absolute disaster, though, and anyone who won't admit that is either lying or misinformed.

As far as the country being "white", well, I'm unsure how to actually debate that. With the projected birth rates we are looking at right now Whites will not be the majority in 25 years. I don't know how that will change.

I have a different view. While violent crime has indeed decreased overall, the violence in black neighborhoods is still horrific, totally unacceptable. Of all the things that bother me the utter despair in the black community here is a national embarrassment. I live here and I see it every day and it makes me want to punch something. There is nothing I can actually do about it, and it's frustrating. I know the suburban white guy approach is "be nice to them" and all that happy horse crap, but that does absolutely zero when it comes to the big picture. Something needs to change, and the liberal approach to it is a laughable failure.

When Obama became president, my hope was racism would end. It got worse. Now, with Trump, I pray that we see some real progress in these communities. If it doesn't get better this time around, I honestly think I'll just give up on it and accept that it'll never be fixed. I'm borderline heartbroken over it. My entire adult life I've waited for people to do something to make it right, and it's never happened. I hope it does this time.

At a Trump rally, Trumpers would cheer Don The Con if he announced that the sun was actually the moon. The crowd cheering his statement is meaningless. The RNC went crazy for Peter Thiel. What do you think those same people say about gays and lesbians in the dark, anonymous corners of the Internet?

As far as the bolded, he made it worse for them. They're viewed as even more disgraceful than before.

And he got a whopping 8% of the black vote.

Maybe if we send enough love their way, it will open up their hearts! I'll be sure to include both in my prayers

Do you think that is the reason? I think it can be very strongly shown that that isn't the reason.

Oh I'm sure you have charts and graphs and maybe a glossy photo with circles and arrows drawn on it.

Hey, I'm no fan of guns. Hate them. But I think if you were to do a factor analysis of the murder rate in the US, with no ideological blinkers on, purely looking at the data, gun ownership wouldn't come up highest in the list of reasons why the US murder rate is so high compared to some other places.

I wonder what most people would find more offensive, a hot headed post that is littered with ****** ******* ***** ****** and speaks for the opposition, painting them as deplorable etc

OR, someone questioning events that occurred decades before they were born that can only be corroborated through writings by winners of wars.

I'd go with the first paragraph but that's just me.

This is my specific confusion. There is a group of conservative political thinkers with non-mainstream views that wander around the fringes of American political thought referred to as the "alt right." There are different elements in this groups, and obviously lots of disagreement, but I take it that there are a few main themes, white nationalism being one of them (a skepticism or opposition to democracy and political equality being another).

There is also a large group of Internet trolls from 4chan, gamergate, reddit, and so on who also seem to want to be part of the alt right. A good comparison here is to see alt rock being like punk rock,* rebellious kids trying to shock other people. But isn't the association with white nationalism and the frisson of racism that goes along with it exactly what is supposed to shock people? So then why do they complain when people take them seriously as racists? Shouldn't they just admit it? Isn't that the point? Stepping back at that point just seems dishonest and a lack of commitment.

*You might also think that for all their merits as rockers, you wouldn't really want to put punks in charge.
Not sure what you are referring to here.

I completely agree that Americans should regard the absolute level of violent crime in the US a disgrace and continue to support efforts to lower it. However, I don't see your justification for claiming that the liberal approach to this (or the conservative approach for that matter) is a laughable failure when violent crime has decreased so much under both Democrat and Republican administrations. While causation is notoriously difficult to pin down here, neither of the last two presidents have been failures on this front.

This is not a wise attitude to take towards racism imo. Thinking that having a black President would end racism was a mistake, and thinking that Trump will end racism is also a mistake. Presidents are fine, they can make a real difference on some things, but people don't change their character every four years on the basis of who is elected president.

Is this based on the same level of detailed data that your prediction of 20 to 50 times more Westerners would be killed by Muslim terrorists if we stopped trying to police their plots?

Spoiler alert: He's going to say it's black people.