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Originally Posted by masque de Z
I dont know what might motivate Bruce to come back. I am not speaking for anyone other than myself. I speculate that at a minimum if it was me i would want the mods to accept their responsibility in escalating things instead of containing it and forcing the people in their forums to behave better and to declare together with management that they do not think i am racist because this is very important to me. That is a starting point.
how, exactly, did the mods "escalate things"? and how would they have gone about "containing it"? are you suggesting that they should have deleted his vile, racist posts and forbid the rest of the forum from discussing them?
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Personally i wouldnt post in a site that doesnt want to do at least that. The mod thing is not material to me because i dont ever want to be a mod in this site. My friends would be a concern because i enjoy interacting with them. If however i was a mod as a sign the site respected my posting history and contribution to the site i would not return to post unless i was given back my prior status (after what happened the way it did and after having complied with the request of the management to remain civil after a certain point) because anything else as choice continues to "see" me as a failed member that will be tolerated back but not respected like it was before or considered good enough for it. I do not care for such bs. Either people are ready to listen to my description of why this happened and where i failed personally and the exact reasons i failed when under severe attack (if i were Bruce say) and what i learned from all this or they are not and they continue to hate me. Then i wish them a good life and they will hear from me later in some other venture because success is the best "revenge" .
ok unfortunately nobody is forcing you to continue posting here, and characterizing bruce as "under attack" is EXTREMELY lol. also, bruce's "description of why this happened" was basically that everybody else was a bunch of idiots.
lol because i'm drunk and i knew it was gonna be fun, i decided to go back and read through some of it just to reminisce on how cringeworthy bruce's performance was, here are some gems that aren't often quoted:
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Originally Posted by BruceZ
You made a couple nonsensical posts, and when I called you out on their stupidity, you ran off like a little bitch with your tail between your legs to bad mouth me behind my back with losers closer to your intellectual abilities. But I saw your laughable posts, and to answer your dumbass question, having an open discussion is perfectly consistent with banning people who call people racists or engage in other personal attacks. In fact, personal attacks detract from open discussion. The key is to always attack ideas and not the person making them. If you have any more questions about this, pm me. I've been doing this since you were wearing pimple cream and spanking it in your parents bathroom. I will tell you what to do.
The notion that this thread is no better than what passes for discussion in Politics is asinine. In this forum, we do not reject arguments out of hand because we know they are wrong. We debate them to determine why they have any force at all, so that when we reject them, we gain a more complete understanding of the issue. We don't hide from positions just because they might make some people uncomfortable.
This forum is for thinkers. People like David Sklansky. Not for eggheads that couldn't think their way out of a blackjack deck with no tens, and do little but throw out the occasional cryptic comment just to make themselves feel better about themselves. If you can't understand this, then go back to your estrogen laden liberal butt buddies that think with their vaginas and suck at the teet of political correctness you pathetic douchebag.
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Originally Posted by BruceZ
I have been explaining this all week in the mod forum and elsewhere. Posting as if no one outside SMP would read it was reckless, and I apologize for that. It won't happen again.
There is a faction of people who will accept no explanation or apology it would seem. This has led to hard feelings when vicious personal attacks were allowed to continue day and night. The harm caused by that was, IMO, grossly disproportionate to the error made and any harm that likely resulted. I didn't respond to that well, and you saw some of the result. It wasn't proper to respond as I did. I will address this further in the mod forum.
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Originally Posted by BruceZ
Being offended is part of life. I was offended all week. Certainly far more than anyone was offended. If someone were truly offended by something I said, they should ask themselves why. Even if the statements I made were my own, so what? They weren't hate speech. I wasn't advocating for any harm to another race. I expressed ideas. Ideas should never be suppressed by an angry mob in a free society. Suppression of ideas is the hallmark of fascism. Why do you want to suppress ideas? Are you the thought police? Do you assume that an idea must eventually result in some action? If you do, then you are making assumptions about people without the relevant facts. That's prejudice. And it makes you no better than a racist.
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Originally Posted by BruceZ
What's the difference between not giving me the benefit of the doubt that I'm not going to act on my idea, and my not giving some black guy the benefit of the doubt that he's not going to rob me?
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Originally Posted by BruceZ
I find this offensive. I think I'll start threads on 5 forums to whine about it, including one here to call for his demodding. I'll spend 10 days on this day and night because I'm a pathetic loser with no life.
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Originally Posted by BruceZ
In the words of my friend John Rambo: I didn't want this war. But if you want war, I'll give you a war you won't believe.
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Originally Posted by BruceZ
Translation:
"Daaaaaaad!!!!! He's picking on me. Spank him daddy!"
I was a whinny baby like that once. My dad came out and boxed my ears.
so diplomatic, so intellectual!
so here's his final adieu, something loosely resembling an apology and taking responsibility for his actions...oh wait, no, just more deflecting and blaming everybody else for not being on his intellectual level, also learned nothing from the whole ordeal-
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceZ
There are different reasons for my various posts that you have observed and labeled racist. I have explained some of these elsewhere, but never all the reasons in one place, so I'll do that here.
When I take these contrarian positions, I only present a vigorous 1-sided argument. I let the other side provide the counterarguments. So my arguments can become extreme, almost like a parody as you saw in some of those slavery posts. I'm stating historical facts, and then presenting arguments which sound reasonable as long as you don't consider anything else. In this same fashion, when I said that it's obvious why you would want to stop and frisk minorities more often if they do a high percentage of the crime, I am only talking about it as a statistics problem. Someone like chezlaw would then inform me that this type of racial profiling often doesn't work, and it can make the problem worse instead of better for a number of reasons.
Some of the posts I wrote are simply idiotic. That's because I was just trying to have a bit of fun on a Friday night, exchanging rapid fire posts with chezlaw and masque for hours while sipping Scotch. I wasn't careful about what I was typing, and I used some very bad wording. For example, I dashed off "the witnesses are likely to be racist" when something like "it's not unlikely that some of the witnesses are racist" would have been better. I typed "criteria for killing Brown" when I meant "factors that led to Brown being killed". With that tux thing I wrote "not about race", when I intended "not only about race", and I explained what this meant in a later post. These were not written for public consumption, though of course anyone can read them.
Some of the short quips are simply throwing out right-wing talking points for consideration with no justification given. This is also done on P and PU. On SMP, the possibility exists for frank and open discussion which can evaluate these if someone wanted to do so.
The Mexican rant illustrated my idea that people are more stressed by problems that they perceive to be ongoing. The things that I said Mexicans do more than whites were intended to be observations from my neighborhood rather than generalizations to the whole culture, but I never stated this. I did say that all those things that cause noise seem to be endemic to their culture as part of the unabashed Gran Torino style humor. In reality, at least one of those things certainly is endemic, the type of music, while the others may or may not be endemic.
As for the question of whether I'm a racist. I believe tom said that everyone has contributed to institutional racism in some way. If that were true, it would seem everyone would be a racist, so what's the point of calling them that? Some can be bigger racists than others though. I stand by my statement that I cannot recall any time in my life when my beliefs affected another race, so clearly I can't be a big racist by Brian's definition of "someone who makes decisions based on race". I never yelled at the Mexican guy or not yelled at the white guy for noise on the basis of race. That was hypothetical. We all stereotype things all the time as human nature. We even act on stereotypes, like when we don't get in line behind the old person because they are more likely to be slow. That thought process doesn't shut off just because the subject is race. I just haven't acted on this with respect to race that I can recall. Except that now, because of what I wrote, it's possible that I have contributed to the general feeling of animosity toward Mexicans in some tiny way. It would be an interesting discussion for SMP or P or PU: Under what circumstances if any is crushing the expression of an idea justified if there is no evidence that it has led to an action? For example, when should we gang up on people just for shooting off their mouth?
so seriously, don't ****ing come in here acting all pious and pointing fingers from your high horse, because ain't nobody tryin' to hear that ****
