Why would you say that?

Because a whole lot of people use race as an identity.

People still see you as white.

Yes, that's entry-level information and pointlessly argumentative. Go back and fit my post into the context of the trend in the thread.

I really wasn't sure if you'd figured out that you're the only one around you that thinks of themselves that way.

So your needless argument now is that I'm the only humanist in my immediate surroundings? How could you possibly know that?

Wait...don't answer. It do not want to further tempt you to take this conversation about a racial topic any more unseriously. That you are making baseless personal accusations at the expense of the 'human-centric' mindset is a big clue you may need to step back, remain calm, and think before posting.

Why would you discourage him from spouting a bunch of racist crap?

Haha what did I say that was racist?

Also, I like the use of 'baseless personal attack' for something Spank agrees is true.

You didn't yet. Spank stopped you. I am sad.

Yea, saying race is still a big issue and people identify themselves and others with it is really racist. It's so racist that the race blind humanist agrees!

You're on a roll of fails lately, Alex.

Humanists are not race-blind. That's a stereotype. In fact, that is a stereotype that has been politically exploited by white supremacists who do not or refuse to understand the distinction between a racist identity and racial identity.

This conversation really belongs in the friendly chat about racism thread, imo.

It wouldn't help explain how white privilege is not an absolute, nor an accusatory statement.

What's he that wishes so?
My cousin spankthewadwookie? No, my fair cousin:
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.

Spank isn't the only person who thinks that way. If I met him I wouldn't see him as "a white man". Just as I dont see Barack Obama as " a black man". He's a man. Thats it. He happens to be black, just as spank (presumably) happens to be white.

When you look at the president, is the first thing you define him as is "black"? Of course not. Its so stupid its ridiculous.

It doesn't matter what I define him as. Acknowledging that he (might) identify himself as a black man is important though.

Like if someone came up to you and was "I'm a black man" would you tell them no, they're just a man?

Its not important to me. You can define yourself however the hell you want. By race, height, education or political affiliation, what do I care? If its that important to you, great. That doesn't change or dictate how *I* define you.

If you came up to me and said you're a black man, I'd think itd be really weird.

Yes, we all know how important it is to you for you to be able to classify people based on race. There's no need to lash out at everyone in a feeble attempt to hide it.

Class is much more important than race anyway. But that's another thread.

Okay great, you think it's weird that people define themselves by their race and wouldn't acknowledge their view/preference. That's the the enlightened view you think it is.
Are you just trying to see how many times you can fall on your face or are you so mad that people don't buy you're neo confederate bull **** that you're trying to project it back?

Let me put it another way. I'm not sure it will help since I think you had a ton of trouble accepting this too when it was put forward wil but think about if someone you knew was transgendered.

If they let you know that they felt they were a woman but you saw them as a man would you not let their view of their own persona dictate how you see them?

Like are you going to just keep calling them him/he even though they've told you they are a woman?

I dont even know what you're getting at. If I met someone and they defined themselves by their race of course I'd acknowledge it. I wouldn't walk around calling them "black mike" from there on out though. Yeah, great, you're black. So what? You're 5'9 too, who gives a ****?

How else would you expect a person to react? Your personality or character is what defines you to me. If your skin color is whats most important to you than by all means feel free to think that way, but dont presume that's how others will.

You're doing the same thing you accused spank of. Some people will define him as a white man. Some won't. Which ones are the weirdos?

.Rjoe you apparently would diminish a person's self-identity if they were the only one around who thinks of themselves that way or is there another way to interpret your previous post?

I'm getting at it's important to acknowledge how people see themselves. Saying you're post racial or whatever doesn't mean jack and is often quite dismissive of how folks see themselves.

This is completely different. People would be insulted if you referred to them with the incorrect pronouns. If I kept referring to you as "she" you'd get mad after a while. If I kept referring to Obama as white he might get annoyed after a while too. How you want to be referred to is completely different than how you'd like to be perceived. Perception is what the other person thinks. You have no control over that.

I can think of myself as a female trapped in a male body and make everyone start calling me Wilma, but if you still think of me as a man, I have no say in that. Just as a black man can't "make" me define him as black.

In the transgender example I'd probably just think of them as a "person". Just as I do with black people. And white people. And Asians and Mexicans and whatever else.

I wasn't attempting to diminish how you view yourself in that instance, I was trying to make the point that it doesn't really matter that you're beyond race. Those around you aren't and it matters. Both from a inner and outward perspective.

I guess we won't agree then wil. The point is that how people perceive themselves is important to their identity and it's best to not just wave that away and be like nah, you're just a person to me.