So here's my take on tournament structure. The fact of the matter is that a tournament has to be over in an amount of time that makes sense for the casino. Tournaments take up cash game space (and therefore drop box revenue) and dealer wages. The tournament rake is how casinos make money, but for a given rake with X amount of players, you only have Y amount of time to fnish a tournament if you want to make money. If the structure is too long, the casino doesn't make money and they cease to run the tournament. As (presumably good) players, we would all love a structure that allows for good players to dominate bad players but the casino needs to make their money first.

So clearly there needs to be a compromise somewhere - we need a structure that's fast enough to eliminate players yet slow enough to allow adequate play.

What I often see in casino tournaments is structures that start out really slow in the beginning with a lot of chips and then they speed up toward the end, which I think is exactly the opposite of what we want. Ideally we want a slow structure throughout the entire event, but we can't have that. So if we don't want a slow-then-fast structure, and the casino can't afford to run a slow-all-the-way structure, what we need is a structure that's fast in the beginning and slower at the end.

I put together a structure for my weeknight home game. I designed it to last from 7:00pm to about 11:45pm. I skipped several more popular early levels and instead added more levels at the end. I even shortened up the first four levels from 20 minutes to 15 minutes. With 30 players, 10 players per table, we are at the final table by 9:30 and the tournament ends between 11:30 and midnight every single time. Several players of the more observant players noticed this (and liked it) and while no one likes a lot of pressure being put on them early, at least there is less pressure on you later.

Cliffs: When putting together a fast structure (which I would define as any tournament with levels shorter than 45 mins), cut levels out of the early stages but add levels in later.

For example, I would put in a 1200/2400 level and a 5000/10000 level - maybe even a 500/1000 level if time allows. But I don't think we need a 150/300 level. I wouldn't even mind ditching 300/600 if it meant an extra level later. Another trick is to completely eliminate the 25/50 level and start at 50/100. With $16k starting stacks, 160 BB's is very playable.

Also:

I think is a good idea. I would love to participate in something like this.

Understand the previous posts but if casino uses tournament to draw attention bring in new players and maybe people stick around for cash games then I don't think the tournament needs to speed up just to meet a revenue per hour formula. Just like retail stores have loss leaders to get you in... Tournaments can sometimes fill this role. Show you are a player friendly place and tournament players will appreciate it and give you some of the pie.

@InFlnlte- Excellent feedback! Exactly the type of stuff I am looking for. I will keep this post in mind when re-working the program for March. One question though. Most players seem to favor larger starting chip stacks. What are the downsides to having larger starting stacks.

@DrummerJew33-Typically the issue with running it twice is the license. I am not sure what the policy will be on this at the Stones.

@Koko the munkey- I like the idea of a speedy structure in the beginning that slows down at the end. Do you think we could get together and look over some of the structures that you use so that I could see exactly what you are doing?

@np916-You are 100% correct. The fact is, a well run room will attract both tournament players and cash players so there is really no reason not to give a good playable structure.

The only downside is the slow start which can be fixed by taking out an early level, like 25/50. For the 15 min blind tournaments, I guess its ok to have that slow start. Because either way, it'll get fast towards the middle and end. For the other non deepstack, I guess its overall fine with the bigger stacks but players generally don't want to play that long so you might as well give them more value in the middle of the tournament than at the very start. For the $100+, I still feel like all the levels need to be included that are currently missing and then just start at 50/100 if you go with a 17k stack.

50/100
100/200
150/300/25
200/400/50
300/600/75
400/800/100

End Reg - Go to 30 min levels - Race 25s

500/1000/100
600/1200/200
800/1600/200
1000/2000/300

1200/2400/300
1500/3000/400
2000/4000/500
2500/5000/500

Race 100s & 500s

3000/6000/1000
4000/8000/1000 (estimated ITM - Go to 40 min levels)
5000/10000/1000

6000/12000/2000
8000/16000/2000 (estimated FT based on 200 players)
10000/20000/3000



Here is your weekly big GTD event's structure. 20 min lvls and re entry until first break. Based on 17k starting stack and 200 players. Plus all race offs are on scheduled breaks. 7 hrs to the money and 9 until the FT.

As of noon today, I will have 2 tables and more than adequate seating, so I'd like to volunteer to host the 2nd Annual Sacramento 2p2 HU Tournament. Please respond below if interested and indicate a couple dates/times that work.

I'm in and my schedule is pretty flexible, although mornings and early afternoons generally aren't good because of work.

I'm interested and I can get whatever day off I need to for the event but my normal days off are Wed Thurs.

in to defend my streak of 0 losses (brag)
ya'll need to not nit up and drink this time lol

happy to not host this time =)))

I'm in for heads up and excessive alcohol abuse. Free most evenings. Possibly a cheeseburger steaks cash game after?

Feb 28 @ 8:47 pm.
Mar 1 @ 12:19 pm.

Tomorrow at 6, make it happen

Justin,

Great seeing you at the Derby this week and I've like the changes you have made. One thought though...I'm not a huge fan of the $4000 chip add-on for $20. Why not just make the tournament a $60 buy-in and get $10k chips to start? Out of the 20 people left today at the first break 19 of 20 bought the add-on and that was after numerous people re-entered the event. If that doesn't work for you...how about having a Friday morning tournament with that type of buy-in (like you used to do at the old place). I much prefer getting a bigger stack to start the tournament because it gives you more maneuverability with more big blinds in your stack.

Epoxy

It was good to see you and congrats on your first two events at Derby. A final table in the $175 buy in and a first place showing yesterday to win your seat to the February 23rd $10k guarantee Deep Stack!

Initially I wanted to do something similar to the old program regarding the add on tournaments and the weekend Deep Stacks. The flow of business is a little different at Derby so I am trying to create something that is custom tailored for the room.

That being said, I currently have one tournament that is exactly what you are talking about. It is Saturday morning at 11am. It has a similar structure, $65 buy in and 20 minute levels. You start with 10,000 in chips and there is a $175 seat added by the casino.

I've been thinking about maybe doing this on Saturday and Sunday though, keeping the add on tournaments on the weekdays only.

Great feedback! Thanks again for checking out the new program. With the help of these forums I have already begun to develop some great changes that will take place after the Feb 23rd $10k event!

Keep up the great poker play!
J

Random aside, has anybody here played at the 500 Club down in Fresno? I can't seem to find any consistent information on the place and I'm interested because they're running an HPT next weekend.

How many tables do they have? Do they have enough tables to run cash while the tournament runs?

What games do they spread? Do they have 2/5 NL+? What is the buyin structures for the NL games?

If anybody knows these answers or can direct me to a non-****ty website I would be greatful.

I believe its at Club One again.
http://c1.alfano.tv/events-calendar#/?i=1

They have 45+ or so tables, probably plenty of $games going at same time

Pretty sure 2pair magazine had their inaugural tourney at 500 club. Ask one of their pros, maybe?

Edit: nm looks like Dave is right, but they are only 10 mins apart.

Looking at Sunday February 9th and Monday February 10th for the HU tournament. It seems like the majority would like it to be $100. If you'd like to participate, just PM me and I'll put you in the draw. Erle will be in charge of betting lines.

Arg, Feb 9th is just about the only day i have something plannned...
O well, hope to make the next one...

Good news for all of you. Not sure I can make feb 9th. Been out of town for several weeks and the following weekend there are two large multi day tournaments.

You're obv not talking about in terms of money for us

Since I'm not playing you all have a chance to win. Thought it was obvious. Sorry.

We could move it back. I may make a poll to accommodate the most people. Definitely want np916 there.

I'm really starting to like barber.

Said no one ever