I'm only saying calling to emphasize the fact that I'm someone who "can't get away" from the hand as the original post said

Hmmm, true.

Now reverse the roles - you're holding 93 on an ace-high all-diamond flop and the pre-flop raiser opens then 3bets all-in after you raise him. Are you calling every time when he covers you and you have ~$650 left with ~$250 in the pot (I honestly don't remember the flop bet sizes)

no

Yes, as if I am in the hand with 93s in the first place, it would be a mistake to fold it when we get the flop that we want and the pre-flop raiser is less-likely to have random diamond combos outside of KQs and QJs (and maybe KJs). The fact that the flop is ace high and eliminates random Axs combos is the tipping point.

We are so far ahead that we cannot fold a flopped flush. And if we run into a bigger one, we give ourselves a KITN for playing 93s in the first place.

Agree with this.

No way he has a flush there, so not folding given that are hand is ahead most of the time.

However, if one of the pre flop callers made this shove I can see finding a fold.

I'd just try and avoid that spot by folding that junk hand in early and late positions.

Pat, you're creating a specific situation where you're leading and inducing the action.

Long term, I think it's a huge mistake to get it in with the 93 when you're not the one initiating the action. Especially "every time."

First off, as limon eloquently put it, the biggest mistakes are made at the beginning of most hands. Unless we plan on committing ourselves to 99x, 33x, and flush boards, playing 93s is an egregious mistake in the first place.

But we did decide to play it, so we need to consider what we are up against when the PFR shoves. Let's say, for informational purposes, we flop AT2.

We are dead to KQ, KJ, and QJ. 2/5 players rarely raise with a wider range than this.

We are ahead of AA, TT, AT, A3s, AK, AQ, KQ and probably some other junk that 2/5 villains will get it all in with on this board.

Fist-pump shoving against this range with 93 is the only solution.

Playing 93s is a leak in itself. Playing it and NOT getting our money in when we are beating an opponent's range by a lot is more than a leak, it is a flood.

ETA: The opponent can easily have a flush here. But not nearly enough to justify a fold.

Guess i should have posted the hand in LLSNL. Sadly since I don't remember the exact pre-flop and flop action I would have to fake a lot of it though

I'm also disagreeing with everyone who is saying his opponent never has a flush. Definitely not true. We don't really know anything about the opponent (maybe it's a reg/semi reg) who would open late from the hj/co with KTs+ where a flush may very well be in his range. We just have no information about the hand, who opened/from where and if people limped before the raise, etc etc.

There's also a nonzero chance that an unknown opens 5d6d, 7d8d type hands from early position, which adds a couple hands in their range that we have drawing stone dead.

Either way while relative hand strength is obv > absolute hand strength, considering how we only flop a flush less than 1% of the time and how rare flush over flush is, not getting it in is just insane (especially considering how in live games most people open 5x so we're technically a lot shallower than 150bb). Not to mention people underestimate the factor of people spazzing/doing crazy stuff since, well, live players are usually pretty bad.

Here's the only information I had on the villian:

Just before the hand, he was yelling at the dealer for accidentally exposing a card on the deal. Exact quote "What is going on here? What is this, a stud game?" Multiple other players had to speak up and tell him to relax, it happens, it was an accident, etc. He looked really pissy.

It might have even been the hand in question that that happened actually, not sure. Anyways that was fresh in my mind, I saw him raise to pre-flop ($25 is a totally standard pre-flop raise at FW 2-5 that doesn't tell you anything about the strength of his hand when you've only been at the table for 3 minutes), looked down at suited diamonds and figured I'd like to see a flop. Optimal play? Hell no, I know this. Looked like he was tilted though so I wanted to see a flop against him.

I was going to be folding probably 95% of the flops I saw, but the implied odds of what I could get seemed high to me if I hit gin.

a reminder:

I'll be there tue - saturday this week.

I'm looking to start a 40/80 (50/100) HOSE.
I'll be be playing days 1pm-midnight.

Look for the list of interest I'll be starting, if interested.

Thanks for the reminder. Please let us know if you decide you just want to get drunk and play 4/8 mixed instead.

I agree with like 97% of this but we know nothing about the opponent and where the action came from.

Also, since TMR asked if we would be calling it off every time, I said no, and especially not if I was in his shoes. He's the first to act after the open with a gaff hand - he's playing his own two cards, not the range of his villain. We also can't discount that he might be up against a competent unknown in the future with a lighter opening range that contains flushes that will dominate him. So yeah, it all goes back to the fold pre part, but we're not talking about me or you and what level we are on, we're talking about TMR and the level he is playing.

Also, 93 isn't really a hand I'd try to defend by throwing in the whole implied odds bs. It's definitely a hand with reverse implied odds long term.

I shouldn't have said never, but the vast majority of the time it won't be a flush we're up against.

And I think we are all in agreement the best course of action is a fist pumping preflop fold.

Um...IWearSportsJerseys and hansmolman were graciously trying to help a lesser player learn how to properly view these kinds of spots while you're just kind of being needlessly authoritative and condescending. Doesn't sound like lighthearted or good fun to me.

ANYWAY I went this saturday and the 2/5 action has been sick good lately. Most of the regfish are pretty terrible so the action is always decent but this weekend was the first time in awhile that over 80% of every table were absolutely clueless. Pretty sweet.

I agree that the games have been very good at all levels, including the 5/10.

And do not get me wrong, although I do not advocate playing 93s, I think TMR played it correctly given the preflop decision to play the hand against a perceived tilted opponent.

I agree with signalstrewn that most people are being nice and courteous despite completely disagreeing with my play (maybe there's some "don't tap the glass" at play?) and beata keeps harping on the same points for no apparent reason. She might have just been trying to have fun too but some of it came off as a little too harsh imho (don't worry, I won't lost any sleep over it or anything :P )

That being said, beata is right that a lot of what I said made no sense when thinking about it more, but everyone has made posts without thinking thoroughly first, or have a post you write not exactly get across the point you were trying to make. I guess all I was trying to say originally was that I was surprised by how quickly he insta-shoved after I raised, he didn't even think about it at all.

It is ironic considering this weekend is the first in months that I broke even

Ya, I think he was stealthmunk, haven't seen him post in a while though.

I played a bit with that Justin Schwartz kid. He is the chubby kid with long hair wearing the pokerstars sweat shirt? Omg what a fish! If he keeps giving action/tilting like he was that weekend, I'm sure big PLO will run at Foxwoods if/when the great regs catch on.

Yummm internet fishies

NIACE VANITY SEARCH BRO. i MIGHT BE DRUNK BUT IKJ NOW YOU ARE LEVELING)

nice win imho (soickooo 45k). you are prizminferno's twin IYAM. saul and richie will run big plo games def they love high limit action. also wanted to say the dit4ecoke you had on the table looked quite delish. wp.

I folded an 8 hi flush in low limit hold'em this weekend, which is way more rare.

As I understand it TMR had 750$ behind and there was $150 in the pot on the flop. Assuming you don't fold your to a single cbet, there is way too much money in the middle by the time you suspect that you are beat to be folding. It's about 2:1 back to you with a 9 high flush.

bear jew did you end up playing 5/10 nl on thurs night?

Step 1: Fist-pump

Step 2: ?

Step 3: Profit