Estimate mini series runners? Break 1k?? 1300?

This is very false. There's diminishing marginal returns to adding more slot machines.

Maybe thats what you mean by "got average patronage" though -- some kind of hypothetical flat demand. In which case, clearly the slot machines would make more, but who's debating that?

I see this argument all the time and you guys take it way too far imo.

a) We all know slots are super profitable, and if the casinos could make everyone play slots they would, but they can't. I've never seen a line for a slot machine, if they added more there would just be more empty machines. That market is fully served right now.

b) You guys who say "If it was profitable for casinos to comp tournament players, they would be doing it" can't have it both ways...The Borgata has obviously made poker a part of their business plan and spends a lot of money on being the top room, they hand out black cards to cash players like candy bars...if they are in it for profit, obviously they see poker players as profitable (directly or indirectly).

c) Do the math and show me how the house edge on nickle slots adds up to more than $18/hr (it doesn't). Neither does blackjack playing anything close to basic strategy if the player is betting $25/hand or less. Sure they make more from drunk ******s or whales betting $100+ a hand, but there's only so much you can do to increase the number of those people. If you have a nice poker room with good games, poker players will come from far and wide to play. If you add more tables and slot machines...you'll have more tables and slot machines. It's not an issue of space.

The argument I CAN see for not wanting poker is that some of the $100+/hand players might play poker instead of other more profitable games if it is an option, and lose that money to winning players who will not dump it back into the casino...But I think the reality is that most people don't just stumble into a poker room, poker players will go where the action is. And if you let the games leave, they will always show up somewhere else to fill the void. I doubt that guys who dumped thousands at 75-150 stud at the Taj years ago all of a sudden play $100 slots there now that the games have left, they probably just play at the Borg now.

Basic casino comp guidelines are 10% of expected losses. If someone enters the $100 + 20 tournament then I would expect that person to earn no more than $20 x 10% = $2 comp dollars for that tournament entry. Not sure if Borgata is handing out that $2 comp or not but I hope that's not what we're debating here.

You're missing the expense side of the equation. Nickel slots might have less in revenue but they don't get paid hourly, don't earn health benefits, never call in sick, etc. They're a one-time expense that collects revenue that goes right to the bottom line. The profit margins on slots are much higher than table games.

does the "poker day" start from the midnight or the 6am? i saw different answers itt

I'm 90% sure it's 6 AM

i'm 89% sure you're right. what i gathered after all the back and forth in this thread is...

for bonus programs that have start and end dates (like play x many hours in a month) the day starts at midnight

as for anything else (your daily average) its 6am like the rest of the casino.

I have seen 50 posts from people that are 75-99% sure of when the poker day starts and ends. Can we get a 100% firm final definitive conclusive unassailable answer on this?

it depends a lot on the question.
Cheshire Cat: Well that depends on where you want to get to.
Alice: Oh, it really doesn't matter, as long as...
Cheshire Cat: Then it really doesn't matter which way you go.

if you are curious about hours for bonus comps then July ends at 7/31/13
at about 11:59 59/60 seconds pm, about midnight tomorrow night.
(Play a minimum of 60 hours from July 1-31, 2013 at one of the limits above and earn $50 BONUS COMP DOLLARS) http://www.theborgata.com/play/borga...uly-bonus-comp
But if you are asking about average daily play,
(the basis upon which they figure out room offers, etc.)
the day starts at 6am...

Yeah daily average play that determines your comped rooms is 6-6 and Stan confirmed it once I believe.

And that is why we have some of the worst floor people, they have no training and once they put on the suit or skirt they feel they have power

The poker day starts at 12:00AM and ends at 11:59PM daily for promotions (i.e., Bonus Comp Dollars)

Borgata made $1 million more on nickel slots than on poker in June.

Borgata made just slightly less on 1¢ & 2¢ slots in June than on all table games (including poker) combined. At most of the casinos in town, the 1¢ & 2¢ slot revenue is more than all table game revenue.

Borgata's slot revenue was 2/3 of the total casino win in June. And more than half of that was the 1¢ & 2¢ slots.

The casino win percentage is higher for most table games (not blackjack and minibaccarat), but the win amounts at slots are way higher.

The monthly financial reports to the state from every casino in town are on the DGE website.

If I don't go to play poker the wife doesn't play slots.

Are hours played for room offers considered one of these promotions?

Yes. Borgata Poker, please answer that question. For room comp offers, when does the poker day begin and end.

It's definitely 6-6 unless its changed in the past couple of months.

I tell you what, no matter what the hours are, the casino hosts are absolute ****heads. I've earned $4,900 comp dollars over the past 3 years, have always had a black card, have always played 2/5 and 5/10 or higher and have played $500-$1000 per hand at bj in the high stakes pit on multiple occasions and I can't get Friday or Saturday comped. I go to Vegas for 3 weeks and I was eating caviar at Jean Georges and saw Cirque Zarkana both for free. Difference in casino hosts is absurd. My host in Vegas walked into the restaurant where me and my friend were eating and comped our dinner at Wolfgang one night. My borgata host won't even call me back after I left him 2 voicemails. WTF
They explained to me that its a matter of my average trip length. I stay on average for 5 days and that brings down my average daily play. I responded "so you want me to come to Borgata less?" Haha

they want you to play that $1000 a hand BJ everyday of your stay because they just look at the average of the days..you would think that a host would be able to judge your play based on overall play

This was my point. We can play the game about exactly how much more a razzed poker room would make if filled with slot machines, but that's not the point. The point is that poker with the highest stakes makes less money than any other game in the casinos at the lowest stakes. Which is why poker players need to realize that they will never get the comps and other goodies that grandma will get playing nickle slots.

We may not like this, but it is what it is.

Actually, tournaments in Borgata generate significant revenue which is comparable to the Poker Live Cash Games. Just consider the numbers for Borgata 2012 Open.

True, daily $50+15 at Chester or a $40+$10+$10 at Borgata or $100+$20 at Parx do not make money for the house. But a 3-day $500+$60 with 2,000 entries or a 1-day $260+$40 with 1,000 entries are definite revenue generators.

Creating *some* revenue is not the same as what cash games do (which is more) or literally every other thing in the casino (which is a lot more). I said that tournaments make some money for casinos at best and were loss leaders at worst. This is true even in cases of tournaments with large vig and/or runners.

And also I think they actually have to pay dealers to deal at a tournament instead of the $4 or whatever they give them for cash game. I think they give tournament dealers $12 or something an hour since tips are much less.

incorrect

If a poker game is being raked at $10/half, it would show up as $320 per 16 hours on that chart, higher than every game except for quarter+ slots. You could certainly argue that nickel slots are worth more given the reduced costs for the casino, but it's relatively close at least. Most of the other games don't match up with $20/hr until you get to $25/$50 a hand.