Why is it that the starting average stack for a final table participant in EVERY MTT at TSR is 14-18bbs. It's atrocious and this style of gambling turns a game of skill into a game of keno and bingo at the most financially volatile moment in the event.

ZERO LOGIC except being perfect for getting staff home after a quick/easy day's work. But don't forget to tip the dealers on top of their pre-buyin tip when you get paid out or you're the crook!

Everyone needs to stop playing at Talking Stick. Get all the players together and take a month off. See if they make some changes, or start listening to player once in awhile. Some people wll not go along till they show up an know games.
It is up to the players to force changes new manager has done nothing.

I suggest that you have a talk w/ the manager. He's much more accessible than the prior one and will give you a fair hearing.

Competition is the best thing that could happen. I heard the Glendale casino will be called Desert Diamonds.

Hope they produce a great poker room that forces TSR to make major changes.

The PR Manager is a genuine nice guy. He is very friendly but that's not necessarily what poker players 100% care about.

All I hear is because they don't have 2 sets of chips they cant run multi day tournaments.

On top of that...the point challenge promotion is the biggest scam in the casino. You qualify for a $40k freeroll after 4 months by making 2 final tables. However, you have to pay a $50 service fee to play the freeroll which is more than double what their normal nightly tournament charges. It's all a joke.

Trying to move to Las Vegas as we speak and I won't have this issue anymore to bitch about.

If everybody hates the structures so much why not just play cash games. The blinds never go up and you can play 200 bb deep. Not to mention they have really good take structures so no need to complain about hi juice.

And you can run good and win more than first place in basically any tourney.

Some people like their edge in Deepstack long lasting tournies over the cash games.

How does the spread limit Omaha run during the week/weekends? Played a little 5/10 during the tournament but curious of how it runs normally, can someone give cliffs? Thx

the manager is from Vegas so you'll be moving to more of the same.

The Venetian and talking stick don't belong in the same breath. There is nothing talking stick does that's better than Venetian except the presence of big tv's.

Methinks the V is a better place for thee.

I saw a tourney the other day in another az casino that after two hours of play 30 of 40 runners were at 2k -4k and avg. stack was 7.5bb.
This is what makes TSR look so good,they can offer crap and still look good.

except for the fact that (1) I can play mid-hi stakes limit and mid-hi stakes mix games every single day at talking stick and can't do either at the the venetian (2) none of the money I spend there is going to sheldon adelson.

Talking Stick does a lot of things very well and is overall a very enjoyable place to play (right up there with Canterbury).

I'm sure that they do, but the vast majority of the players that play the tournaments probably have a bigger edge (or lose less) in shallow fast structure tourneys.

I don't doubt the tournaments could be structured to give a better advantage to more skilled players; however, I think its in your best interest to just learn how to adapt and crush what is spread there.

You can still have a big edge playing 14 bb stacks in a fast structure, its just may require a different/modified skill set.

Plain and simple the structures of the tournaments suck except the State Championship. But u can keeping talking up how great things are at Talking Stick. I'm sure the management greatly appreciates it.

how many runners are the nightly tourneys during the week getting these days?

While I'm an advocate for better structures as well, this is pretty much the answer!

Shallow structures don't take all the edge away, they just require a different skill set to crush. The bad regs and recs in general make plenty of mistakes regardless of structure AND specifically BECAUSE OF the structure. Its up to you to adjust and exploit those mistakes!

All that said, I too am a bigger fan of slower and true deeper structures, and is a part of why I have landed myself in Vegas to grind for a while.

To Johns same point, if you truly are a bigger fan of just exploiting deep stack poker mistakes, that is also called playing cash games! 100bb+ poker from start to finish (of your session) at its finest! Sure it doesn't have the glamour of winning a big tourney, and you can't just bink off a big score in one day, but the edge difference you seek is sitting right there waiting for you, you just have to go and get it! It also opens up much better table/game selecting options and doesn't tie you down for 10 hours.

End cash game vs tourney rant!

I in fact love both, and each have a place in my monthly grind.

Keep me posted on this! GL!

@80

If the changes that some of you are advocating for the tourneys are adopted how much longer will the tourneys be expected to run v. the current structure?

all they have to do is copy aria daily,it starts at 1pm and is done around 9pm.
They can still start at 11am and they should be done around 7pm.I dont think this is a big deal and people making last couple of tables shouldnt mind playing till 7 or so.I think the aria daily has one re entry which would be ok.

I don't play the tourneys bec I think the juice is way too high esp when I add in the opportunity costs of not playing live during that time but I think that you should reconsider your opinion. An 11am to 7pm is too long for a lot of the players, way too long. A 7pm start would go to 3am? How many players do you think have the time? This isn't LV, mind you, w/ it's tourists not on a schedule or grinders trying to make a living, they are recs for the most part and I doubt that they will approve of such a long time commitment, nm your opinion that it's actually better for them.

As you state "I don't play tourneys", so maybe you should keep your comments focused on the cash games. Many tournament players voice the same complaints so maybe there is some validity to it despite your cash game player analysis of the situation.

And maybe I spoke to somebody about this discussion and was told the time constraints are a serious issue to management which is why I asked how much additional time would be required.

And maybe the tournament players aren't as concerned as you are with management being a little inconvenienced in order to run a more player friendly tournament. All the dealers and floor people work on shifts so the alleged "time constraints" issue is just a lame excuse.