i will take tebow at 1000 to 1

the haters here are so furious.

all he's done is take a 1-4 team and go 6-1 with 5 of those games on the road, beating two teams that they lost to with orton. haters say its because of the defense, then this week they win 35-32.

heres a good football outsiders article about it. the only change has been the massive improvement in efficiency in their rushing game, hes making willis mcgahee look 25. the reason WRs run open is because the secondary is forced to keep 8 up front.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvo...2-dvoa-ratings

haters ghana hate

TEBOW ON AN UNBELIEVABLE RUN OF WINSSSSSS

dkgo,

I'm not a hater. I like Tebow. I just think he has no relative chance of winning a Super Bowl as a starting QB.

I watched the majority of the game today. Tebow is not the reason for them winning. The Minnesota pass defense is absolutely horrendous, and his 200 yard passing is inflated because of a few dump off passes that ended up going 40-50+ yards because of the incompetent defense. Also, Willis McGahee had another terrific game, and no one ever says one word about him. 20 carries, 111 yards, 1 TD, very solid.

Denver had 13 first downs, and Minnesota had 27. Denver was only 3-11 on 3rd down and Minnesota was 6-15.

There is a reason Minnesota is 30th in passing defense, and it clearly showed today. Most of Denver's points were scored on big plays.

Orton would have won this game with ease by exploiting the passing defense instead of relying on McGahee to carry the team. With Tebow, the Broncos struggled to win this game because of a lack of consistent offense and a small time of possession.

Tebow had an average game, and that was enough to beat a poor Vikings team sans Peterson.

the problem is that crummy QBs can luck into a SB appearance. in the last 10 years alone guys like trent dilfer brad johnson and rex grossman are good examples of how an amazing supporting cast can carry you along. tebow is good enough to not lose games, much like those guys did. whether or not denver will be able to build an allstar cast around him is another story.

real odds are probably somewhere in the 75-1 to 125-1 range.

you keep saying stuff like this, but there are two years of evidence showing that orton lost games like these all the time.

Gus,

With Orton they wouldn't have to keep so many guys up front. They need to worry about Tebow running and the wacky offense. It's hard to say who would have won the game with Orton has the QB. The offensive scheme would've been completely different. Minnesota is pretty terrible so I think Denver still would've won with Orton but it would've been for different reasons. Orton is objectively a better NFL quarterback than Tebow but I think Denver is a better team with Tebow.

dkgo,

I'm pretty much a casual NFL fan and I'm confused as to why you can credit Tebow for both McGahee's rushing and the WR's getting open. If they are stacking the box then how is that helping McGahee? And why does Tebow have anemic passing statistics if the WR's are running wild? It seems like the article is exaggerating Tebow's effect on the opposing team's defense. I don't think his performance is going to be sustainable as teams adapt over time.

next time someone will have to tell tebow to force the ball 40 yrds down the field instead of hitting wide open targets crossing the middle.

Extremely RO. Denver could've very easily lost the games they've won against pretty bad teams. Yes, you can credit Tebow for his "WIM" and wearing the other team down and using his godlike powers to will missed FGs and horrendous coaching, but sample size.

Orton also went 6-0 before the Broncos tanked in '09. What's your point? Tebow isn't better than Orton.

I think you are forgetting that this is a team game. Just take a look at the past games and you'll see games where Orton had great numbers, but the team sucked ass.

A good example is last year against the Colts. Orton had 476 passing yards, had only 1 TD, but also only 1 INT and no fumbles. The Broncos had a non-existent rushing game, so obviously it was difficult for him to score. The Broncos are 31st in passing yards and 1st in rushing yards. It's time to start giving McGahee a lot more credit.

you think tebow's skillset doesn't help mcgahee?

How would it help it? A terrible throwing QB is forced to rely on his RB.


I really don't think how screwed the Broncos are gonna be next year. They are this year's Chiefs, and if they make the playoffs, they will be exposed badly in the 1st round, and they will end up being rewarded with lower draft picks and a tough schedule next year.

gus if you need convincing just read the tebow GOAT thread in SE. tons of trolls and false prophets but also lots of good info on why tebows making the difference.

First of all is that the defense has to be prepared for a QB run. He occupies defensive attention on a run play like only newton and vick also can. If you say a team normally plays with 7 but creeps a safety in vs denver to make 8, then because there is an extra guy dedicated to tebow its like mcgahee is going against a 7 man with the benefit of having one less guy at the second level to get by. Someone else can explain specific schemes better than I can, but the gist of it is that defenders cant just crash the inside handoff when they know tebow can just as easily take it off tackle.

The passing game numbers look anemic but are efficient by minimizing turnovers. There is rarely safety help jumping the route to make a pick. They also tend to get a couple big plays per game that people just chalk up to lousy pass defense. Demaryius Thomas has been injured most of the season but I think he would excel as a WR in this offense if he got consistent playing time because he is a boom or bust type of player.

dk/others,

I don't get this McGahee argument. He was more banged up earlier in the year and still had several great games before Tebow became starter. The Broncos' rushing attack is more efficient now because their offense relies almost entirely on running the ball because their quarterback can't throw. McGahee is just good.

the best argument i have seen thus far is how tebows style pretty much negates the need for ELITE RBs or WRs, and their offense can get away with those positions being filled by role guys. Which since they carry such a large premium will allow denver going forward to go for an awesome oline/defense.

Denver could end up being really incredible 3 years from now.

you would expect a quarterback who can't throw to make the rushing attack LESS efficient though. there are more factors at play here.

Yes, if they get an elite QB. Tebow is killing this chance by winning right now.

Broncos rushing with Orton.

38, 131, 59, 119

SD game was split, dont feel like looking at each half.

Broncos rushing with Tebow.

177, 195, 299, 244, 125, 208, 150


So forgive me for giving tebow a significant amount of credit for being the reason they are #1 in rushing yards.

lol did cutting out the preceding paragraph mean you just didn't read it?

dkgo,

They don't throw the ball. Ever. Their entire offense is designed around the run. Citing rushing yardage is silly when they actually had a passing attack with Orton.

You cant just gain efficiency by increasing the volume of runs. If anything it would be the opposite since if its the only thing you do defenses would be dialed in. Because of tebows unique skill set though they are able to both increase volume AND efficiency in the run game.

Additionally, being able to successfully run the ball a lot is a better formula for winning because compared to passing it is more consistent. You have fewer turnovers. You have fewer plays for major yardage loss with no sacks. You have fewer penalties (more offensive penalties occur on pass plays, although same for defense so in effect this reduces variance). You have longer possessions to help your defense.