All you are doing is looking at turnovers and ignoring the importance of clock management and keeping the offense on the field. Look at a QB like Drew Brees who is so clutch on 3rd down and allows the offense to stay on the field.

Also:

NAME ATT COMP PCT YDS AVG YDS/G LONG TD TD% INT INT%

SACK YDSL RATE
Kyle Orton 155 91 58.7 979 6.3 186.0 52 8 5.2 7 4.5

9 49 75.7

Tim Tebow 143 65 45.5 852 6.0 83.8 56 8 5.6 1 0.7

16 98 80.5



No one is arguing that playing to a QB's strengths is a bad thing. They are arguing that Tebow isn't a good QB. Mullen is just arguing that the numbers are skewed because Tebow doesn't throw much.

lol, Dirk Nowitzki is/was an ELITE NBA player and a hall of famer. wtf?

I totally get that. I think that Denver with Tebow > Denver with Orton. I don't blame them for doing this.

Tebow's run has been against mostly bad teams and has involved a lot of luck and comeback wins. Not to say that the Broncos are terrible, or that Tebow is a negative for the team, but that Tebow....is not a good NFL QB. A team cannot realistically win a Super Bowl with him at the helm. It's not feasible.

You can't be results oriented and just point to wins. If Tebow was lighting it up and the Broncos were somehow 3-4 in his run due to bad luck/bad defense/bad officiating etc all Tebow dick riders wouldn't be being this results oriented.

lol...

look at the avg field position that results from a TO and the avg field position that results from a punt.

Um... to rodgers 50% sounds about right, yeah.

Vince young is exactly why i qualified my statement earlier by saying that there are more things to consider than just passing and rushing ability .

My point is that he isn't some lost cause wrt ability with 0 chance of ever remaining effective like you seem to think. he has just enough to get the job done as we have seen the past 2 months. How do you put a number on something like decision making? game management? Maybe tebows style of throwing (either hit your guy in the chest or throw it where nobody including the defense can get it) is more effective than previously thought? Leadership ability? You don't think denver plays harder for a guy like tebow than they did for orton?

lol, punting is not a good thing. A team who punts a lot does not win games. Brees turns the ball over a few times, and they still win games. Why? Because they don't punt that much.


Again, all TO are not created equal. Fumbling is the worst kind. Shooting bombs down the field and getting them picked off is generally the same as punting.

Seriously, this.

Okay, so by implication zero chance at all against SD. Then Minnesota is a predicted loss as well.

After each game, it is declared that he accomplished nothing. I see that rationalism, fairness and integrity is thriving up in here.

sorry i didnt mean to imply that tebow is elite or hall of fame worthy by that comparison, just pointing out a guy who is not the best at ANYTHING in particular but the fact that he is merely good at so many things and big has a value in and of itself.

like i said the fact that tebows style would not benefit from an elite WR or elite RB relative to the cost of getting one allows denver to not use draft picks or trades on positions that are overrated generally and they can build an elite defensive unit and oLine. that fact has a value.

and now gus is tossing up a strawman that tebow isnt as good as drew brees

Tebow is worse than 99.9% of his peers at throwing the football. And no, I don't think he's 50% as good as Rodgers, but I suppose you can't really quantify it. I just watch Rodgers GOAT it up every week passing while Tebow WOAT it up passing.

lol @ calling Tebow's awful passing fundamentals and lack of accuracy as a style. I'm pretty sure Tebow would prefer just to hit his receivers instead of making garbage passing.

I do think Denver plays harder for Tebow than Orton. I think Tebow is a likable guy. I think Denver is riding a pretty lucky wave right now. Tebow's "doing just enough" is also a great deal credited to his team for not sucking/playing well. They lost 2 of their games with Orton by a combined 6 points and the other game to the Packers who would surely beat Denver with Tebow.

Huh? My point was that punting the ball often is as bad as throwing a pick. Keeping your team on the field is important.

Perhaps an elite WR but I don't see why the cost of getting an elite RB wouldn't help Tebow? I mean I know you are talking optimistically but Tebow is probably a dog to be Denver's starting QB in 3 years let alone them not drafting any RBs/WRs banking on Tebow taking them to a title.

Passer ratings don't agree with you. There are only so many chances in 1 game to make elite passes... there are only so many gimmes... and the rest fall somewhere in between.

you don't find it fathomable that john fox was like "timmy listen up, unless you KNOW you can get the ball to your receivers hands and there is no defender within 5 yards of him, just throw the ball away to where nobody can get it." ??? Because that is exactly what I would expect any competent coach to tell him.

no doubt they are a bit lucky as of late but being able to do enough without messing up is not JUST luck. luck is more likely to result in a win if you keep the game close the whole way through. for all we know, the dolphins have been lucky to not be losing games by more points.

You are assuming Tebow's style is going to work in the future and against good defensive teams.

An elite WR or elite RB would both help him, but what I'm saying is the gain would not be proportional to the cost of obtaining either one. Those resources would be better spent bolstering the oLine and defense. I mean look at their rushing numbers as it is... mcgahee is certainly not in the elite category. It isn't like ADP would outgain him by a whole lot.

I think he's definitely starting for them 3 years from now as long as fox or elway don't do anything screwy. As in, if he isn't the starter, it won't be because he isn't good enough anymore.

QBs mean so much. The Colts are like two years removed from being the GOAT and basically undefeated with the same team besides Peyton and Bob Sanders and they're now historically bad.

Man if Fox said that it's because Tebow is a pathetic thrower. If you're an NFL QB you should be trying to hit your receiver or throwing it away. Tebow is clearly attempting to complete passes (as he should) and just making bad throws. If Tebow has to rocket it 3 yards to the right of some guy's shoetops where no one is because he's incapable of throwing that's just another knock against him.

The Miami/SD games is coaches/kickers losing games. I agree with you but the bottom line is those games could've easily (and in some cases should've) gone either way. It's not just the Miami/SD games either. I mean I didn't watch the Broncos early games but they lost by a field goal twice so it seems like they could've gotten lucky and won both of those and started 3-1 before they lost to the Packers, and then would we even be talking about this?

i've grunched this entire tebow thing cause all the posts are way tl;dr, but are you guys actually having a serious debate about the possibility that tebow doesn't suck?

Why would that be though. Why would Elway/Fox want an inferior QB unless it's a conspiracy or something?

It worked in college despite everybody knowing exactly what it was... It has worked thus far in the NFL... IDK i think me assuming it is going to continue working has more of a basis than you assuming it isn't.

crazier things have happened. i mean i think everyone is in agreement that before this run of games, the generally accepted smart move would have been to play brady quinn. who knows what goes on in the heads of NFL people.

lol, having a running QB is not rare in college. Florida was also a really good team at the time. Arguing that it worked in college is pointless. The NFL is completely different and college successes often don't translate well over to the NFL.


No, Brady Quinn is probably worse than Tebow. The accepted smart move would have been to stick with Orton. People are just being results oriented. It is unlikely that Tebow will continue having success.

lol tebow was not a rare player in college?

Florida was not a really good team the year he won the heisman.

It has translated thus far gus. I mean LKJ already pointed out your inconsistencies as far as what it will take before you stop doubting. If he loses you expected him to lose, if he wins it was pure luck. There is no way to convince you.

hindsight bias or what? maybe you are some football genius but most people weren't saying that brady quinn was probably worse than tebow 7 weeks ago when the decision had to be made.

you can keep saying it is unlikely he will continue having success but there is literally no basis for it. people said he wouldnt pass as well in the NFL, and he hasn't. but he is also passing way better than they expected. people said he wouldnt run in the NFL like he did in college, and he hasnt. but he is running way better than they expected. he is making the team better!

ill just quote all of these again when he puts on that SB ring my friend.

A few years ago when Miami also ran the Wildcat with ronnie brown/ricky williams it worked really well for awhile because no one was prepared. More teams started doing it it became of flavor of the month in the NFL. They ran it ALOT.

Then Bill Belichick showed everyone how to stop it, destroyed Miami, and no one runs the ****ing Wildcat anymore.

I'm not sure how I am being inconsistent? I said they won't beat the Chargers. The Chargers have **** the bed this season. Tebow is hardly the reason for them winning any of these games, and no one is giving credit to the rest of the team.


Not sure how that is hindsight bias. Brady Quinn has never been a good NFL QB.

Regardless, Broncos aren't going to do better than 1-3 for the remainder of the season.