ok PM me when teams are able to replicate having tebow under center. ill come back in here and apologize to each and everyone i disagreed with individually.

Just wondering what are your thoughts on the numbers dkgo posted comparing tebow to vicks pre-100mil contract season and them being nearly identical? was vick awful? keep in mind tebows numbers would have only improved after today.

You're barking up the wrong tree here. I hope Tebow lucks his way into the Super Bowl, Denver is down by 14 with 2 mins left with Rodgers taking a knee when some kind of bird flies into the center causing the center to fumble and Denver recovers. Tebow leads the team downfield and scores with 30 seconds left, then him and the kicker switch uniforms and Tebow kicks and recovers his own onside. Then they run some sort of double reverse shovel pass with Tebow as the lead blocker leading Ball downfield while throwing several awesome blocks. Fox sends the XP team out but Tebow tackles him and screams that he wants the ball so Fox lets him go for 2 and he just runs over linebackers into the endzone and Tebows all over everyone's face. That would be totally ****ing awesome and I'd love that ****.

Still would be a horrible passer and below average QB though.

Other teams weren't nearly as successful at running it. If anything my argument just means that more teams will start running Tebow-style offenses and defenses will adapt even quicker.

I don't see the numbers but I assume this means they are similar. Why is it cool for Tebow guys to cite numbers when it's convenient and cite WIM when the numbers aren't there? All that proves anyway is that giving Vick a monster deal was idiotic. You think Tebow's getting a 100 million deal anytime soon?

Anyway, if a healthy Vick was the Broncos QB they'd be a way better team.

numbers wise, yes. fortunately for timmy the numbers arent the only thing that matter when it comes to a QB.

lol the point is that they wont be able to replicate it (and they know this, so they won't even try) because tebows got such a unique skillset.

my entire argument is the fact that it goes beyond the numbers... and then when discussing it with someone who wants to concentrate on the numbers, you can see that he is very comparable to 2006 vick. were you saying vick sucked in 2006? because you wouldve been in the 1% if you were.

vick is certainly a better runner and better passer than tebow but its not like that ever translated into the stats column (until last year of course when he was on fire). im not sure denver would be better with him. intangibles. id say its 50-50

Why is Tebow's skillset unique? You've said yourself Vick is a better passer/runner and so is Vince Young. Are you talking about WIM?

Also I didn't think Vick sucked but I certainly wouldn't have given him a monster deal. It also helps that watching Vick is electrifying whereas watching Tebow is painful at times

lol gus wrong

chi sucks now

they def can go 2-2

and would not be surprised at 3-1

All this proves is sample size. Take Vick dropping 40 fantasy points every week last year and being amazing over the same sample as Tebow's where we are making him out to be way better than he actually is.

there are a bunch of factors.

i have always disagreed on VY being a better package. not worth getting into so ill just compare him to vick.

size is a big (the biggest, imo) one. vick was obviously a better rusher overall and tebow will never get a 50 yard rush in the nfl, but on 3rd and short/4th and 1 i would rather have tebow than VY or Vick and I don't think many people disagree with that. this sort of thing is hard to put a value on. tebow is a complete physical specimen. he had like the 3rd highest bench press on the UF team. QBs are not built like that. its akin to that RB minnesota had several years ago (edit: moe williams, 2002, 11 rushing TD) who was all around awful, but got something like 12 rushing TDs because he took over the short goal line situations. an awful overall RB but maybe the next best guy gets 6 TDs on those. thats worth something.

leadership is important as well. without knowing much about vicks off field antics aside from the dog thing, i still feel confident in saying that tebow has a more positive overall effect in terms of getting the best out of every guy on the roster.

WIM is kinda funny... I have never believed in it to the extent that some other people seem to. or at least, i beleive in it as much, i just dont think it affects the game as much as they seem to. there are only a few times per game where it matters. like his whole "ONLY ONE GUY RUNS THE BALL HERE" thing last season. No way are other QBs pulling that ****. They'd rather make a 20 yard pass attempt that goes incomplete so they can say "oh well, that usually doesnt get made anyways so its not my fault and nobody can blame me" whereas he WANTS to put things squarely on himself.

vick last season can only be called a complete outlier. the point is that when he put up tebowesque numbers, people werent saying "wow this guys stats suck!" i mean he was getting nothing but hype. because its tebow, the fact that his style is unconvential and leading to "bad" personal stats is letting all the haters say we told you so, despite the fact that he keeps winning.

if there is 1 thing i know for sure, it is that tebow would gladly have a statline of 1 for 30 passing, 10 yds 0 tds, 10 yds rushing on 20 attempts 0 tds, if it increased his teams chances of winning. like i said im willing to bet that john fox told him to either hit the wide open receiver or throw the ball 10 yards away from the nearest guy. so instead of having a statline of like 20/25 for 200 yds with 2 ints he goes 10/25 for 100 yds with 0 ints. there is no way he has a problem with making himself look worse if it benefits the team.

did a little tebow research and just learned that apparently he was supposed to be a stillborn and was sposed to be aborted but his mother didn't understand how that worked and decided to go through with it and he was somehow born anyway and then went on to become an nfl qb.

just makes today's minnesota loss even more a of beat.

Last part isn't really fair. Tebow wants to run because he can't throw. For almost every other QB it would be better to throw. Winners ALWAYS want the ball in their hands at the end of games - it isn't fair to say that just because they are more skilled at passing that they don't want it as much as Tebow. Every great QB wants their team to win and for Tebow it's him running the ball whereas for another it's a pass.

Also yeah these short yardage guys - Moe Williams, LenDale White, TJ Duckett etc burn out. They aren't starting RBs and you don't build teams around them so Tebow being really good at QB sneaks or runs on third and short is just a small part of being QB. Obviously you still want Vick over Tebow as a runner despite Tebow's size advantage.


No disagreements about this. Tebow is a completely selfless guy and an admirable person. This isn't really debatable like his QB ability is.

lol, when did you become a Broncos fan?

Anyway, Bears just need to sign DONOVAN MCNABB because Hanie is WOAT.

In before the Broncos win at least two and then Gus rationalizes why of course it would have been crazy for them to win any fewer than that.

1. Tebow wants to run because hes really really good at running. He doesnt need to throw to win.

2. Its a pretty big part. A big QB who can run is insanely valuable in short yardage since you get an extra blocker instead of wasting one player who hands it off. Vick gives you the occasional spectacular play but fumbles a lot, gets hurt every season, and is an overall cancer even if you ignore that his numbers in his prime were not as good as Tebows right now. Yet no one had a problem putting vick as an elite QB, top ten at worst.

Maybe because this same "rest of the team" was losing games non-stop for two years.

Going from 5-16 to 6-1 is not lolsamplesize, its statistically significant.

Also if you want some evidence that running QBs help your overall efficiency in the run game, I dont think its coincidence that D Williams, J Stewart, McGahee, and McCoy are all in the top ten in ypc among running backs.

ya, i'm jumping off of the tebow hater bandwagon. It was fun for a while, esp when he was in college, but he's seemingly way more legit than most people originally thought.

That being said, lol sample size.

Don't ever ask me to leave the Nick Fairley hate-wagon though. **** that guy.

Yeah, I know. My issue was with zz saying other big time QBs don't want the ball at the end of games and instead prefer to pass. That is because they are good at passing. I don't want Peyton running a QB counter in the red zone, that doesn't mean he wants to win less than Tebow. I'm aware Tebow has WIM but that is not a unique characteristic.

No, it's still a small part (albeit important). You only have 3rd and short so many times in a game. Say what you want about Vick but if you cherry pick a 7 game stretch from last year his numbers are far better than Tebow's. 7 game sample sizes of extremely close games are not a fair sample size in determining a QB's winning percentage or statistics.

Okay that one was pretty funny.

boise attempting to play real teams

I really hope you aren't talking about Arizona State

Pretty sure he's talking about joining the Big East. A conference which, by the way, still sucks. Pitt, TCU, Syracuse and West Virginia are all gone now. Cincinnati is the only half-decent program left. USF dabbled in being good but it doesn't seem to have taken. Boise and Houston are in now.

The Big East clearly has no place as an AQ conference anymore. I can't blame Boise for attempting this, but it's just not going to better their situation that much.

diskos hate for a team that has finished in the top ten of the massey ratings four years in a row and five out of six is so hilarious and wrong

big east is obviously just gasping for breath now, whole system is still a joke

No, the hate is well-placed.