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07-07-2013 , 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geddy Lee
Yes, once upon a time, he clowned a reality TV show winner and gave birth to an all time .gif, but it's still a ****ing terrible way to lose a fight.
It was 16 straight fights of him doing that. It wasn't just against Forrest and Bonnar....thats the way Silva acts once he thinks he has your timing down. Take a look at Silva vs Sonnen #2 in round 2- once Silva got Chael's timing down he started putting his hands down a lot, and thats when he started dominating the fight.

He is not "clowning" people when he puts his hands down, uses distance and spacing to dodge instead of keeping his hands high, and tries to get inside his opponent's head. That is his strategy which has been very successful for him in the UFC. He usually starts to incorporate this strategy once he feels he has gotten his opponent's timing down well.

I just don't understand how people see him do this for so many fights, and now that he has one loss everyone has a problem with that style of fighting. Sometimes you just get clipped.
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07-07-2013 , 01:51 PM
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07-07-2013 , 01:51 PM
well what's with the fake stagger thing?
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07-07-2013 , 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warchant09
It was the extent he used the taunts. He has never done that for an entire fight before. He did it for a few rounds against DM after he hurt him real bad. He usually does the hands down stuff then counters with high accuracy short punches. Tonight he didn't even think about punching Weidman one time, it was almost like he wanted to get knocked out for some reason.
His entire style is based upon:

1. Getting his opponent's timing down

2. Having this great ability to dodge without needing his hands up, sometimes its not even a full dodge- he will roll with punches so well that sometimes he'll just eat them(see Bonnar fight)

3. Putting his hands down, trash talking, etc. with the intent of luring his opponent into lunging forward too quickly

4. His opponent either lunges in too quickly(Forrest Griffin) or becomes sort of mezmorized and just stands back and takes shots(Maia)


But Weidman countered this beautifully. For about 3 minutes Silva did all this and Weidman just stuck to his game plan- didn't get scared of staying within Silva's range, but also didn't do anything risky to give Silva an opening.

Its completely LOL that some of you guys think Silva was just "taking punches" and wasn't actively looking for an opening. Imagine that in the Anderson vs Belfort fight it was Belfort who connected with the front kick after ~4 minutes of not much action. You all would've been saying "WTF, Anderson didn't even try!" But since Anderson got the front kick, you realize that he was trying, but he was waiting for an opening. Well against Weidman that opening never came.

Last edited by Assani Fisher; 07-07-2013 at 02:05 PM.
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07-07-2013 , 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTeeMe
well what's with the fake stagger thing?
dont remember this exactly but if you are going to go with the narrative he does this to induce the opponent to attack wildly going for the KO (which is reasonable iyam) then it would make sense
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07-07-2013 , 02:51 PM
Is Dana White giving Anderson an immediate rematch? Haven't heard anything about that.

If I'm Silva, I'd probably move up to 205. Could prob get the next shot at Bones
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07-07-2013 , 02:56 PM
White said before the fight that should Silva lose, he gets an immediate rematch without question. Silva said after the fight (and then again in the post-fight) he doesn't have any interest in a rematch (yet another odd thing about this fight).

Silva also said before this fight he thinks he'd lose against Bones (add that to the list of odd ****).

White said the Superfights were out the window but that's obviously just him trying to sell what happened last night. He'll do whatever the biggest draw is and Silva/GSP is probably that.
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07-07-2013 , 03:05 PM
I think it would make more sense for silva/Weidman 2, then if silva wins do GSP. Cause If silva beats GSP now, not only is silva no longer the best in the world, but GSP clearly isn't either.

Even though, I got Hendrix to upset GSP. Which completely ends everything.
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07-07-2013 , 03:07 PM
Assani, Silva has never done what he did last night in any fight before. Even his corner after round one was like "calm down", "relax", they seemed just as stunned as everyone else at what he was doing out there. When his hands come down that usually means the counter punches are about to come out. Not last night, he never threw one. Seemed like he was content to just dodge punches and just clown around for the rest of the fight.
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07-07-2013 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yoyobo
I think it would make more sense for silva/Weidman 2, then if silva wins do GSP. Cause If silva beats GSP now, not only is silva no longer the best in the world, but GSP clearly isn't either.

Even though, I got Hendrix to upset GSP. Which completely ends everything.
Right, Silva/Weidman II is the obv next fight in a world where everything makes sense, but given Silva's attitude, who knows.

Silva sort of sank Silva/Bones with his comments and this loss. I don't think most really think Weidman is a better fighter than Silva, but it's going to be much harder to sell this loss+moving up then it would be moving down (or to a catch) to fight GSP.
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07-07-2013 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTeeMe
well what's with the fake stagger thing?
He did it a few times before that. He has either lost his mind or doesn't want to fight anymore.
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07-08-2013 , 01:18 AM
Silva was overconfident coming into this fight most likely believing all the hype given to him over the years. Especially the past couple years with all the GOAT and P4P talk. He slips and slips strikes, catches kicks, then takes out past top tier guys and most likely didn't consider CW one of them. A guy doesn't need to be hit hard to be KO'd, recall AS falling back and KO'ing Franklin with what looked like a mere jab? CW clipped AS perfectly while he was acting like an idiot and shut his brain off for long enough to drop down another shot or two. Ref steps in, all over. Rematch will most likely be a lot different AS strat.
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07-08-2013 , 07:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaya
Pretty sure Barboza just shredded that dude's knee ligaments
Leg kicks remain the most underutilized weapon in MMA. Cab you imagine having your legs battered like that? And they can be landed practically at will against the majority of opponents. Look at what Barboza and Also have done recently. Anyone with decent leg kicks are doing their opponent a favor when they give them a break from the fury for the sake of mixing it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaro Von Ducksauce
props to the bald guy, he took a ****ing beating
Boetsch is a beast who has been masquerading as a middleweight contender. Not his fault, just the way things went. He'll have a place in the division as long as he's so bout it though. Barbarian = one of the most fitting nicknames in the sport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
More thanking God from fighters.
Ugh. So tiresome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martymc1
Gracie's just not good enough anymore. Last few I've seen in ufc have been terrible.
Yup. And really, what were the odds that one family could mass produce world-class fighters in the first place? Just goes to show how amazing the creation of BJJ really was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
Awesome match. Edgar ftw. Even Silva/Weidman might not be able to top it.
I love Charles Oliveira. But he faces a big challenge if he wants to be a contender. The way MMA is scored today you simply can't afford to pull guard and allow yourself to be taken down unless you're gonna get the submission.
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07-08-2013 , 08:49 AM
My takes on Weidman vs. Silva:

-I think the pressure of being the unbeatable GOAT got to Anderson. Everyone loses in MMA, and the inevitable loss was coming sooner or later for Silva too. In my view he chose to take the easy way out with these antics- win this way and you look even more GOAT, lose this way and you were just clowning around in the first place, right? And he supported the theory even more with his post-fight interview- "eh, whatevs, I was only in this in the first place to make a better life and I've done that, I was bored and tired anyway." Total cop out.

-I'm not sure if Weidman is delusional or not (although if you think God exists and/or cares about a sporting event I suppose that confirms it) but IMO he mishandled the post-fight questions. "This is only the first step. I showed Anderson that he needs to take me seriously, which I'm sure he will do in the rematch. I won't feel like the champion until I win that fight, which will be the toughest of my career." That's the correct answer. I get why Dana White is spinning this as, "hey that's Anderson's game, it just didn't work on Weidman," but get real.

-Up until the moment that Weidman's slow left hook hit the mark and shut off the lights on the flat-footed Silva, this fight was turning into a disaster for the challenger. After a good solid first round in which he followed the Sonnen blueprint, Weidman completely and utterly fell for Anderson's BS. And if I'm in his camp I'm terrified that finishing the fight in this manner is gonna give him false confidence in his striking relative to Silva's. I think a lot of fans wanted Anderson to get his comeuppance, and are now letting the joy of his defeat cloud their judgement. Weidman needs to avoid the same trap. He was not "hanging with Anderson on the feet". He was allowing ego to lead him down the path to disaster like so many challengers have before him. Only this time, Silva took it ridiculously far and paid for it. Deny that reality at your own peril. Chris needs to stick to his round one gameplan (and this time forget the stupid heel hook) if he wants to keep this belt.

-There is no grandpa figure in the sky looking out for you. Things don't "happen for a reason". God is Santa Claus for adults. Get a grip.
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07-08-2013 , 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher
He "fought bad"??? He fought just like he always fights!!!! Imagine that instead of Weidman landing those shots, Silva made an amazing dodge and then KOed Weidman...would you still be saying that he fought bad? You guys are just being insanely resulted oriented here. Silva fights that way for 16 straight wins and hes the GOAT; He fights that way and loses and everyone thinks he wasn't trying.
I think these antics have always been unnecessary and stupid. Taking a couple minutes to get an opponent's timing down is fine- it doesn't require him to act like a clown. I already outlined my take on this behavior- it gives him an excuse if he loses (which all fighters eventually do) and makes him look that much sweeter when he wins. That doesn't mean he wasn't trying. But he certainly didn't choose the optimal strategy either.

You're not wrong about Weidman- he took advantage. Good job by him. When I watch the fight a second time I question the stance that he knew exactly how to counter it. (He attempted a telegraphed shot for example that could've gotten him smoked.) But he kept it together for the most part and earned his win.

I for one think the rematch is gonna be fascinating. Many athletes feel a sense of relief when the burden of a long streak is finally lifted. Will Anderson fight like he's hungry again? Will it be enough? Will Weidman go back to looking for takedowns? Will he come in overconfident in his hands? What will the odds be? I can't wait.
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07-08-2013 , 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTenderVigilante
let silva go teach people to fight or whatever noble crap he said he wanted to do in his post-match interview.
In my view Silva's entire post-fight reaction was damage control:

Oh crap, I look like a freakin IDIOT right now. This American crowd is flat out disgusted by my antics...

"Yeah America! Thank you for allowing me to live here!"

Hmmm, they're still pretty disgusted. And they love that meat head from Jersey that just kicked my ass....

"Chris Weidman is the new champ, it's his time now!"

F that, I wasn't even trying, he's slow as hell...

"I'm tired anyway, I was only in this to help my family in the first place!"

Crap that sounded like an excuse...

"I just want to teach my students; I'm a really generous, big-hearted guy! Not some cut-throat competitor! I'm magnanimous! You might be confused because I refused to shake hands and tried to humiliate my opponent, but I'm actually very magnanimous! USA USA USA blah blah blah, God, teaching, America, Chris, students, blah blah, thank you, blah!"
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07-08-2013 , 11:17 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...illed-the-king

Quote:
UFC 162 brought one of the greatest surprises in recent UFC history as the relatively inexperienced Chris Weidman knocked out the great Anderson Silva. Weidman has just 10 fights to his name including his win over Silva and had been absent from the sport for a year (a quarter of his total career) up until the fight due to injury.

HERE is the gif of the knockout. You're going to want to keep that open.

Weidman has unfortunately been robbed of some of the glory that he deserves by the many fans and journalists who are claiming this to be more a case of Silva losing the fight for himself rather than Weidman taking the title from him.

Weidman won the first round in fairly convincing fashion as he took down the champion, landed good punches and attacked with a kneebar and heel hook. Once the fight returned to the feet, Anderson Silva went to his showboating and looked to convince the judges that he was winning the round based on his confidence and bravado.

Unfortunately, MMA is the kind of sport wherein judges can be fooled into thinking that showboating actually means something, certainly some fans are still convinced Silva won the first round.

In the second round, it was more of Silva going about his usual antics and waiting for Weidman to overextend himself. Weidman did a wonderful job of continually moving into good striking range rather than lunging in at Silva's bait. Weidman's jabs landed successfully through Silva's razzle-dazzle, and that had to irritate the champion.

I spoke in my "Killing the King" series about how Anderson rolls with or pulls away from punches and how his opponents in MMA make it a good deal easier for him by never leaving the left-right-left punching pattern:

Quote:
In MMA, this [rolling with strikes] should be easier than in boxing because almost all MMA fighters attack by alternating their hands—left-right-left or vice versa.

Boxers often double or even triple up the same hand mid-combination, which makes it difficult for the defender to turn side to side as Silva does.

Very few opponents have doubled up punches from one hand against Silva. I am not saying that doubling up would allow a fighter to knock Silva out—there isn't a simple answer to an iron chin. However, there is a reason why elite boxers rarely roll with every punch as effectively as Silva does; boxers are not as predictable and one-note in their offence.
Of course I had no idea that Chris Weidman would be the man to try this and even less of a clue that it would end in a knockout for a fighter whose chances most of us were pretty pessimistic about.

Weidman's success in throwing Silva off his game and catching the champion off balance before finishing him on the ground was largely due to his doubling up off his right hand.

Leaning straight back away from punches at the waist is a technical taboo in boxing. It opens up some lovely counters if you can convince an opponent to lunge at you—see Silva over Forrest Griffin or Muhammad Ali over Sonny Liston (which I wrote about here)—but if you get hit while bending backward at the waist, there isn't far that you can go to absorb the force of the blow.

A fantastic example of both the risks and rewards of pulling straight back from punches can be seen in Prince Naseem Hamed's bout with Kevin Kelley. Hamed was dropped multiple times as he was hit while trying to lean back, but equally, Hamed's own knockout punch came off one of these awkward backward leans which made Kelley over commit.



Fans can complain about Silva leaning back with his hands low all day because it cost him the fight, but it has also won him numerous fights in his incredible win streak. It is difficult to lean as far back, or as freely, with one's hands up—try performing limbo while holding your fists to your chin for a lesson in human balance—and Silva loves to draw fighters in by making their strikes fall just short.



Plenty of elite fighters in boxing, kickboxing and MMA have pulled away from strikes, as Silva does, and have become known as crafty fighters for their chosen style; Muhammad Ali and Prince Naseem are a couple of great examples from the boxing world.

Unfortunately, most who do pull away from punches eventually get hit while they are doing so, and it is just so much worse to get hit while leaning backward than when in stance with some semblance of a guard.

A great example of the problem faced in Silva's leaning away from punches at the waist can be seen in Sugar Ray Robinson's autobiography Sugar Ray in which he details preparing to fight the incredibly awkward and savvy Randy Turpin who had bested Robinson for his title in their first meeting.

Recounting how Turpin pulled directly back from strikes, Robinson remembers that an old adviser, Soldier Jones, counselled him to "feint Turpin into yanking his head back... Because then he can't yank it back no more."

After apparently being headbutted in their second meeting, Robinson began to worry that the fight could be called off as a technical knockout in favour of Turpin. Robinson reminisces:

Quote:
In my desperation I feinted Turpin into retreat with my left jab, as I had done to my sparring partners. When he yanked his head back I let go a right hand to the face.

skip to 6:00 for the KO

Turpin was awkward, but nowhere near as active in his backward leans as Anderson Silva is. The truth of the knockout is pretty simple, Weidman's double right hand caused Silva to lean back as far as he could before the left hook was released.

Watch Silva's fights with Stephan Bonnar, Vitor Belfort or any others who chose to strike with him. It was predictable left, right, left combinations from start until finish (whether that be a minute in or 25 minutes later). Silva is so used to evading basic combinations that they just won't work.

Reaching to hit Silva—as Forrest Griffin famously did—is just asking to meet a counterpunch as your strikes fall short.

What Weidman did was to stay in range at all times while getting Silva to lean back. As the second, short right hand came (with nothing on it), Anderson pulled back just as he normally does for the left hook, leaving him with nowhere to go, bent over backward and unable to move his feet as Weidman's left hook sailed in.

The thing which most people won't understand is the importance of the powerless backhand in the middle of the combination.

So often in combat sports, it is the minor punches which are more important than the major ones. Had Weidman not gotten Silva to pull his head back with the slappy second right hand, the left hook would have sailed right past by an inch or two, and we would all still be talking about Silva's reflexes.

Silva leans back from the first right straight:



Silva leans back again as Chris Weidman slaps a back-handed second right at him. Silva's head is now well behind his centre of gravity:



Silva has nowhere left to go as the left hook comes in:




As it happened, the first time that Weidman used the double right hand to place himself in range for the left hook it worked, but I have little doubt that, had the fight continued, Weidman would have continued to work his way in and fake Silva into over-committing to a backward lean.

A similar effect can, of course, be accomplished by doubling up the jab, but the double right hand obviously worked well on this occasion.

On the subject of leaning back at the waist to evade punches and how precariously positioned it can leave a fighter, I am reminded of an old trick that the great karateka Mas Oyama would perform to illustrate the importance of posture in karate. Oyama would have a man sit on a chair with his feet on the floor and his back against the backrest.

At this point, Oyama, a strong man by most standards, would place his index finger on the seated man's forehead and ask him to stand up. When the man inevitably couldn't, Oyama would explain that it was more to do with the weight of the seated man's head being behind his centre of gravity and needing to move it forward in order to stand.

I am not so traditionally minded that I believe a fighter should never pull straight back from punches, that is simply old fashioned and has been proven wrong by the enormous success of men like Ali, Hamed, Roy Jones Jr. and Anderson Silva. What I will say is that using this unusual style of evasion does raise the stakes enormously when the leaning fighter inevitably does get hit clean.
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07-08-2013 , 11:26 AM
good article
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07-08-2013 , 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher
His entire style is based upon:

1. Getting his opponent's timing down

2. Having this great ability to dodge without needing his hands up, sometimes its not even a full dodge- he will roll with punches so well that sometimes he'll just eat them(see Bonnar fight)

3. Putting his hands down, trash talking, etc. with the intent of luring his opponent into lunging forward too quickly

4. His opponent either lunges in too quickly(Forrest Griffin) or becomes sort of mezmorized and just stands back and takes shots(Maia)


But Weidman countered this beautifully. For about 3 minutes Silva did all this and Weidman just stuck to his game plan- didn't get scared of staying within Silva's range, but also didn't do anything risky to give Silva an opening.

Its completely LOL that some of you guys think Silva was just "taking punches" and wasn't actively looking for an opening. Imagine that in the Anderson vs Belfort fight it was Belfort who connected with the front kick after ~4 minutes of not much action. You all would've been saying "WTF, Anderson didn't even try!" But since Anderson got the front kick, you realize that he was trying, but he was waiting for an opening. Well against Weidman that opening never came.
I agree with every word of this. Great analysis AF
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07-08-2013 , 02:28 PM
Just to further assani's point on how results oriented many posters are being after the fact, heres 7 posts from the EDF MMA forum ~2 minutes before Anderson got knocked..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everlastrr
Anderson giving it the nonchalant. Weidman and fans should be worried.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForumWithdrawal
Mentally breaking him down in front of thousands. Jesus christ
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC11GTR
Goddamn I love watching Silva work
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Originally Posted by Andy-Martin
Wideman being silly there by standing with him
Quote:
Originally Posted by ham on rye
silva is out of his goddamn mind
Quote:
Originally Posted by pageh656
FOTY already entertainmentwise
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilltown
lol

Silva is just hilarious.
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07-08-2013 , 05:03 PM
Fish gonna fish?
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07-08-2013 , 05:30 PM
DW discussing moving Rousey/Tate to Superbowl Weekend and CW/AS II to UFC 168 in LV on Dec. 28. Link

UFC 162
AS earned 600K
CW earned 48K

What do you think salaries could be for II? AS signed a contract for 10 more fights prior to his loss of the belt too. CW has yet to negotiate his upcoming signing.
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07-08-2013 , 05:43 PM
Does that figure include bonuses and possibly ppv figures?
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07-08-2013 , 07:00 PM
Just read in one big Brazilian website of news that people are investigating a $1M bet on Weidman, can it be true?
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07-08-2013 , 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuccaF
Just read in one big Brazilian website of news that people are investigating a $1M bet on Weidman, is it true or pure speculation?
If Silva was going to take a dive (and of all the things wrong with this fight a phantom punch wasn't one of them), he'd almost certainly need a lot more than $1M paying 2:1 or thereabouts. Dude almost certainly made at or near a million for this fight alone.
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