You're misreading, "no opinion" is off to the right, not in the middle. That said, there's something wrong with the poll. It doesn't add to 100 for Republicans, the racial mix doesn't seem consistent with the partisan breakdown, I think there might be a screwy sample.

FYP

Oops, did I read that backwards?

Ah. Reading that poll correctly is

I guess it's pretty standard for you guys, but I find it very confusing that White Americans are really into patriotism and the confederacy at the same time.

I think this is right on why Trump did a light disapproval of neo Nazis yesterday and a full throated support of the statues today. Trump's trying to draw a line between Neo Nazis and regular folks who believe in the Lost Cause. It sort of points the way in which Spencer messed up. Instead of drawing in all these people with weird haircuts, weird Nordic symbols, and who are obviously hateful bigots etc he needed to draw the alt right into the Republican resentment. Dress nicely, talk about wanting to support history and heritage and make it sound like you're just another identity politics group.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...remacy/537045/

to sum up

winning some stupid football games >>> covering up kid rape


got it

That graphic is jacked up. No way can 10% of Republicans strongly disapprove and 16% of democrats strongly disapprove.

If I read these correctly the two approve columns for the general population only add up to 30% altogether. Disapprove is 48%.

This is a very strange discussion to follow for me as a German. As people have mentioned, we mostly commemorate the the victims of Nazi terror and not the perpetrators.

There are only a few comparable examples I can think of: in my town and a neighboring town there have recently been debates about street names or statues of poets, who wrote some private letters praising Hitler, a stone with the inscription "Klagt nicht kämpft" (Don't complain - fight) in front of a school building.

Mostly there is no side arguing for keeping things, but people complaining about the debate in general, because they feel (at least that is what they say) that those things are too fringe to really complain about.

I think it is always good to have a debate on whether to ged rid of a statue, street name, or whatever, because it's whole reason of being is not just to honor the person, but first of all, to make people remember the person. That is exactly what that debate does. In some cases, just like the street name mentioned above, people decide to get rid of it. In others - like the inscripted stone - a placard can be added explaining the circumstances and giving a more detailed and balanced view. In some cases people agree to keep things the way they are, for whatever reason, but still more people will be aware of who the person really was.

That graphic is terribly made. They use similar colors with tiny dots of color in the legend. And the data is obviously wrong as presented.

I would gamble less than 5% of Christians could name all 10.

I think this is a great statue of Bender.

Uh, wait until you find out what they think about Israel and what they think about Jews.

Sure. I agree, actually. It's why I'm taking a bunch of time to make sure people I respect here don't fall into the trap of reflexively defending Jefferson memorabilia simply to refute idiot right-wingers. It's a bad take for the reasons you mentioned. The bolded is very, very important and gets to the heart of the collective lies people tell themselves.

That's why I really love that quote from John Adams that I posted earlier:

The defense of early American plantation owners keeping hundreds of chattel is often just rank moral relativism, the idea that like they were largely morally clueless knaves and hadn't been exposed to Enlightenment ideals like modern Americans are. It's so heinously and historically wrong. The contradictions are manifest: Jefferson was a ****ing scholar of the Enlightenment, he read and understood all of the contemporary objections against keeping slavery. Read the Declaration! It's dripping in literally all of the information one needs to live decently when it comes to question of whether to enslave black people or not: don't.

That he failed to live up the ideals isn't even like a married man failing to live up to his marriage vows and getting blotto and ****ing another woman. Dude kept slaves HIS WHOLE LIFE. It wasn't some rash decision. He made a calm, rational, continuous decision over decades to enslave people and live off of their labor. He had plenty of opportunities to opt out. He had plenty of contemporaries who faced the same decision and chose differently, to hire people and pay them for their labor rather than keep force them to labor with no right to negotiate. Perhaps some hardcore libertarians or those Neo Nazi dudes can square all this but literally anyone with a conscious or even approaching a leftist sort of mentality should be horrified. The whole movement means nothing if we don't reject that kind of exploitation. To look past it because he did great things or wrote beautiful ideals is not acceptable.

No, you understand. The Americans who defend Confederate statues (or the Jefferson Memorial) by pointing to Germany's Culture of Remembrance and indicate that our statues to slavers and Confederates as a form of cultural memory not to repeat the mistakes of the past just have terrible, clueless takes. It's not that you lack cultural context, it's that my fellow Americans who brought that up ITT are spouting ****ing nonsense.

Economist cover.




Another lol

Poll seems weird. How can Republicans be wishy washy about monuments but whites so strongly opposed to their removal?

That 85% of white America may not be sane, but they vote.

It's not even metal or stone!

Just a lovely man

Maybe I'm communicating poorly. I'm not saying advocate for pulling them down I'm just saying if the right disingenuously argues for it, step back and let them get on with it (and take the consequences).

lol. gf got me a jan quadrant vincent t-shirt for my birthday

Ugggh, Corey Stewart is the closest thing I've seen to a white supremacist on a major news network and he's very much in the running for a Senate seat.

They're just playing the whatabout and gotcha games. They're not going to actively argue for it and try to push anything forward.

As soon as some prominent democrat says, "ya good idea let's remove Jefferson," the entire herp derp hate machine pushes headlines, "Democrats Intent on Destroying US Heritage. Why Do They Hate America?"

Regrettably I think this is right. Trump's approval ratings crashed when the Republican healthcare bill was going through and I think you're going to see a bump with the Charlottesville stuff goes through. It's really easy to bend white people's views towards antagonism towards blacks and feeling under siege.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.f4bd226b2600