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Originally Posted by AllCowsEatGrass View Post
I think it's time to face the fact that the likes of Fox News, Infowars, and Breitbart are winning the propaganda war, and it's not even close.
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Originally Posted by dereds
I think this is right and I think in large part it's right because liberals and leftists want to maintain some relationship to the truth and not go directly to easy simple answers that people can understand.
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Originally Posted by zikzak
No. It's because the real left has been systematically crushed over the past 40+ years in this country and what remains is a bunch of centrist cowards propping up an imperial capitalist state.
Zikzak has the correct answer but it's really just a different way of stating AllCows point. The left is poorly organized (changing slightly: Bernie, DSA, BLM, etc. are demonstrative of a nascent and growing leftist movement). But the left's propaganda organs are effectively non-existent. The right is winning the propaganda wars, because the left has collapsed for the reasons zikzak mentioned and what remains are a bunch of mealy mouthed proto right-wingers. I'd even give dereds some nods that he's approaching the truth: the left has forgotten the simple politics of motivated self-interest and inspiring class consciousness against wealthy and monied interests and become bizarro world defenders of technocractic babble as a form of political propaganda. What a mistake. The left has simple, very popular arguments (tax the rich, distribute the receipts to people who need things via things like medicine and retirement incomes). The dominant party and many of our allies simply just chooses not to make them.
I think you guys are basically in furious agreement here, it's just a different way to say the same thing. The only part I would disagree with is that liberals and the left are deeply wedded to the truth. It's pretty clear to me it's not that, that a lot of liberal and what counts for 'left' political messaging is because the left is way too gentrified and the technocractic babble brigades are basically a form of class consciousness, of class messaging. But it's hilariously politically limited, appeals only to effete centrists who are a vanishingly small percentage of the population.