Very positive writeup.

http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time....fe-from-poker/

bossing

erm - the money laundering part is all and only about sending money to 'you' if you're an American (which I'm guessing you are).

Everywhere else in the World people have withdrawn money since this broke - there's just huge delays because of the quantity of transactions going through.


EDIT: "...from a blogger who is a real smart guy...", fwiw I haven't got a clue how you came to this conclusion, he sounds pretty much the same as a few hundred of the posters on this thread.

and the reason feds conviction rate is so high is because if there is even a chance you may not be convicted they throw unreal pleas at you (versus absurd sentence if convicted) that pretty much must be taken

More on Elie. SMH.

---

Elie, who was arrested Friday in Las Vegas, is yet another former Intabill associate. In 2009, Elie, Thornhill and someone identified only as ‘Elie’s Partner’ began a ‘transparent processing’ relationship with Utah’s SunFirst Bank on behalf of the indicted poker companies. (SunFirst vice-chairman/defendant John Campos was also arrested on Friday.) The identity of ‘Elie’s Partner’ isn’t known, but a clue might be found in a recently unsealed federal lawsuit Elie filed against SunFirst and a prominent Utah businessman named Jeremy Johnson.

Elie’s suit against Johnson (plus nine other individuals, 10 corporations and 51 shell companies) alleged that Johnson used his “trusted relationship” with SunFirst to convince the bank to do business with Elie’s payment processing services. In return, Elie and Johnson were to share the profits 50/50, but instead, Elie claims Johnson blew the money on things like an airplane, real estate and gold. (You know, the necessities.) Oh yeah, Johnson also personally lost $1.536m on Full Tilt between April and October 2010.

Just to make things interesting, Johnson was already facing a federal lawsuit for allegedly bilking consumers out of $275m via fraudulent over-billing for subscription services. Yet Johnson has not been charged in connection with the poker indictments, despite admitting in court documents that his companies had merchant account arrangements with Full Tilt and other poker outfits, and that he’d used some of the poker companies’ funds (with their permission) for investments in oil drilling ventures. Because, you know, his obvious skill at the poker table had convinced these companies that he knew a good bet when he saw one.

Anyway, back to Elie. Convinced he’d been cheated, Elie filed his $20m lawsuit against Johnson in federal court in Dec. 2010. So let’s see if we have this straight… Elie, who well knew he was up to something the DoJ frowned upon, decided to file a lawsuit that essentially invited the feds to take a closer look at his financial dealings. In March, Elie dropped the suit without explanation, presumably because “D’oh!” is not a proper legal term.

http://calvinayre.com/2011/04/16/leg...l-court-cases/

Beloved- Thanks for your support. The company has money and is cashing some people out. OK works for me. Now they also owe people in the US money and can cash them out also from existing bank accounts ( where other people are paid from ) or from newly initiated banks accounts if necessary. Any delay should be minimal and a statement to that effect should have already been released. The indictments are company issues and only concern you if you hold STOCK in the company.

I dont hold any stock. They are HOLDING my money with the mutually agreed stipulation that they will return it upon my request.

I hereby request.

No, it isn't.

Oh God, this thinking is idiotic.

If the other guy knew your girlfriend had a boyfriend, it makes him just as culpable as her. Better yet, if the other guy chose to act at the time when your girlfriend was the most likely to cheat on you, it would be ridiculous to not hold him partially accountable.

It is the same with the DOJ, they knew this would affect thousands of people, they knew their actions would lead to all accounts being frozen (hell, they are the ones that froze them) and they knew they were interfering with the way of life of a lot of people, and yet they chose this particular way of enforcement at this particular time.

It this was such an important issue that needed enforcement, they could have easily taken care of it back in 2006, around the time the bill was originally passed, and before online poker has grown into the behemoth that it was before April 15th. Instead of actually enforcing the law, they chose to act at a time when the return for the government would be the greatest. Instead, first they kept giving banks time to comply with the bill, continually pushing the deadline, ultimately setting it for Dec. 2009. If an act is truly criminal, it is would only be logical to set one date, and then enforce the law fairly and without prejudice any time after. Why would the government ever extend the time (beyond any reasonable time to settle all claims with current customers) given to a so called "illegal enterprise" to get their affairs in order, if the criminalization of such acts committed by the enterprise ever made sense.

Now, instead they are asking for $3 billion dollars. It seems very unlikely they would have a claim to such an amount, if they actually chose to fully enforce the law back in even 2009. DOJs budget for the whole year is $30 billion, demanding 10% of it(granted it does not all go back to the DOJ but I'm sure they will get a big portion of it to cover the cost of the investigation)from one case is not an amount to dismiss. Basically what the DOJ is doing, is fixing a case at a time when the return can be the greatest, and basically allowing the US government to get a return from a continuing criminal enterprise, which seems way more shady than what the defendants are doing.

If there is any criminal activity, they laws must be enforced at the time such activity occurs or at least at a time when the enforcement guarantees the highest rate of success for stopping such activity. What the government did here was simply trying to maximize its own profit from a criminal activity, that they were in charge of stopping.

The government always knew the pokersites were making deals with multiple payment processors to circumvent certain laws in order to stay in business in the US; there is no way to escape a financial paper trail these days. Such processors/banks often got penalized, or at least reprimanded, and ultimately would stop continuing to do business with the poker sites (We all remember the multiple occasions when the cashouts options would get suspended for short periods of time, while the sites searched for new PPs). It is hard to believe that such PPs, made the decision to stop such a lucrative business practice as a partnership with an online poker site, without a direct order by a government law enforcement agency to do so. If this was possible on an individual basis, why did the government not implement the system-wide injunction back then?

If the DOJ knew such practice was taking place, why did they not act sooner? Why did they wait for the time when they could freeze as many as 75 processing accounts? They could have easily seized the domain names at a much earlier sign of trouble, and twisted both FT and PS's arm to stop making transactions with US institutions, thus both effectively enforcing the current law, and also minimizing all incentives for any other site to engage in such "unlawful" business.

No site would continue to use the PPs in the US, if anyone reasonably believed that a threat of such strong and stealth action, by the DOJ, was real. Hell, none of us would have kept as much money in our online accounts as we have done, a lot of us might have given up on online poker all together until the system was truly legalized. Furthermore, the effort to legalize online poker (as well as online transactions) in the US would have been much greater and probably more successful.

The PPA always insisted that playing online was legal since the UIEGA did not clearly criminalize it. Consequently, and even though I do realize this case does not pertain to the legality of online poker, it does not change the fact that everyone expected that, if the US government were to do something about the current situation, whether it was a clear legalization or criminalization, it would be on the public stage, either in Congress or in federal courts, and not behind close doors at the Department of Justice.

Instead the actions by the DOJ left us with a system in pieces, with no way to access our own money, and frankly no hope for legalization of online poker any time soon due to the stigma caused by the seize and desist order. Instead of starting small, setting an example for other businesses, the Department of Justice went for the jugular, and ****ed over both the business and their own US citizens.

I "feel" you request, I read their email as basically saying...

> until we survive this & maybe if we escape Jail,

> maybe after the Bloodsucking Lawyers take their share upfront & a % after trial,

> than after the Govt.,'s already taken the proceeds of "Crime" (aka. your deposits)

> u can try suing the Feds for ur $50...

> you also may get a microscope inserted up somewhere (aka Anal Probe...No Lube...maybe with Rubber Gloves)

> and they can seize your laptop to "investigate"

> than after 10 years give it back to you maybe in little pieces as the look for "secret" things...

> than if we are still around and maybe if there is something left ok than we'll talk (via email)...

Sorry for the "inconvenience" as we "work" thru these F***ing Federal Criminal Indictments...

Cheers...

If you're wondering what you can do, check out this thread.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...hread-1021812/

There are several things we can all do, and most of them are really easy... you can do them in your boxers if you want.

Do you understand what money laundering means?

If the attorney thinks the sites represent illegal gambling, then it's illegal for the banks to process your money - that's the money laundering part - how do the sites send you money if nobody is going to process the checks or credit card transactions?

Other people have mentioned that they've received checks which were sent out before friday - and the banks won't process them. Do you think the sites should send out more which will bounce? Or do you think it's probably wiser for them to not send out worthless pieces of paper and instead try and find a way which would mean you could actually receive your money?


The rest of the world doesn't perceive what the sites are doing as illegal - hence it isn't money laundering - hence the reason why everybody else can still get their cash.

Was that a simple enough explanation?

You can only be guilty of money laundering if it's the proceeds of a criminal activity - the US is the only country claiming any illegal activity - therefore it's the only country where money laundering is involved.

There is no reason in hell that US players should not be, of this date, receiving confirmations for their cash out requests.

FT has the records. All they have to do is order a check ( or whatever ) be sent to the correct individual from any one of their many bank accounts. There should be almost no delay and in fact............."the check is in the mail " is all that should be going on.

Beloved Focus for just a second here OK :

I have not been charged with any crime. ( Pay particular attention to this one.. )

A business I do business with has.

Thats his problem.

Not mine

He has money. He owes me money. He has the means to send me my money. Send me my money.

Sorry for all the technical terms

Jesus. It would be hilarious if it wasn't sad. Let's just hope Stars & FT owners have more brains.

the whole concept of money laundering is super ******.....

In my country(India) often kidnapping money is processed via banks...since kidnappers dont want to take risk of carrying money.....

how can a persons own money be illegal......its persons own human right to do whatever he wants with his own money..gamble it...throw it in dustbin...burn it..

how come FBI has a problem with it?

zzt, beloved has already explained in terms a moron could understand why that can't happen.

You couldn't be more wrong.
You can't do whatever you want with your money, you can't buy or spend in illegal manners.
Also, and due to you unknowledgeable comment, it's illegal to destroy bank notes.
In theory, you are entitled to the monetary value of the note, but the actual paper is property of the central bank that printed it.

For the USA: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/17/333

You seem to be neglecting your only problem, if you solve this you will be able to cash out just like the rest of the world.

Beloved-

"Other people have mentioned that they've received checks which were sent out before friday - and the banks won't process them. Do you think the sites should send out more which will bounce? Or do you think it's probably wiser for them to not send out worthless pieces of paper and instead try and find a way which would mean you could actually receive your money?"

Those checks were sent out probably before the indictments from banks whose accounts would eventually be seized. Here is a revolutionary idea of deep thinking you may have conceptual problems with : How 'bout FTP opens a NEW bank account that is not frozen, has nothing to do with any accusation in the indictment and send me a check for money from that account? Jeeeeze I must be a rocket scientist to come up wit dat one huh? The money is available, my money and the FTP problems are mutually exclusive so just send me a check with the money FTP has in other legal NON SEIZED AND PERFECTLY CLEAN accounts which would break no laws what so ever. ( I can send you a check and not break any laws even if I was indicted for murder. The murder has NOTHING to do with you. However please dont hold your breath waiting for the check. )

Dont u get it ????? There are numerous perfectly legal ways to send me my money? PAY ATTENTION !

The ONLY issue here is the reliability and trustworthiness of FTP. Peoples in other countries should take note of FTP and their lack performance. Next time , over another possibly unrelated issue, it could be you.

Because in our Country Government seeks to control personal decisions that do not harm others because Governemnt feels they can make better decsions about our welfare than we can. It looks stupid but when The Republican Bible belters are in it makes sense to their half of the Country and when the Democratic do gooders are in it makes sense to their half of the Country. A bright guy like you steps back and sees the big picture and rightfully sees that the individual alone and not Government should have the choice of their own actions that do not harm others.

This times a billion. Anyone who thinks either major party cares at all about individual freedom is deluding themselves.

[x] has money
[x] owes you money
[ ] has the means to send you your money

The "crime" of engaging in transferring money between themselves and US poker players is exactly what they are accused of, and exactly what they are currently restrained from doing by the FBI's actions against their accounts. They're working on clearing that hurdle to return players' funds. It sucks. That's life.

And this "clean account" would have FTPs name on it, and the USA bank will go "oh hey, it's illegal to process any cheques from them sorry."

Grand idea.

Homeless - you are listening to and siding with a moron. You evidently dont seem to understand.

Tell me, what would prevent me from sending you a check? Nothing

I have two checking accounts. One has been seized by the IRS for failure to pay back taxes. I will send you a check from my other checking account. Perfectly legal. No one harmed because I owed you the money.

What would prevent FTP from sending you a check. Nothing

FTP may have hundreds of banking accounts. Some of them have been named and seized by an indictment and some have not. FTP can send me a check from a non seized and non indicted bank account. No one harmed because they owe me the money.

I have been denied service ( playing poker ) which is not their fault due to the indictment. I choose to end my relationship with FTP and I request you, FTP, send me monies you have been HOLDING FOR ME. ( not monies that are yours ftp but monies that are mine but temporarily in your possesion. )


WILL FTP HONOR THEIR AGREEMENT WITH ME OR WILL THEY NOT HONOR THAT AGREEMENT????