I also feel finding banks to work with will be an issue for the poker websites. Many banks are going to not want to do business with (i.e. lend money to) an indicted company, especially one whose assets are being seized, even if it is only "some of their assets". A company this big had lines of credit and loan agreements to supply operating capital.

Second issue is what do they do to replace the American cash flow? Did they just lose 20% of their customers overnight?

Third issue is lots of people are talking/asking about taking their money out. I have not heard anyone ask about making a deposit. Do you think these websites are going to have an easy time getting people to deposit new monies? How long can they last without deposits?

Companies always so everything is fine and then one day they are out of business. Just like Lehman when Dick Fuld says, "we have no problems" and the next day they are bankrupt.

Can the FBI investigate where the $700 BILLION+ went for the "bailout" in 2008?

get a clue, jesus christ. DoTheMath's post was infinitely better and more informed.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=5512

Canuck, right. work for the DOJ?

Yes the charges are serious, but as I understand it both conspiracy & money laundering are conditional on the activity being illegal in the first place, so if online poker is legal there is no case. Can any legal experts confirm this is correct please, if it possible to get a yes/no answer from lawyers Also there is a question of jurisdiction which is no doubt horribly complicated..

From the Financial Times:

With US prosecutors seeking assistance from law enforcement agencies abroad to arrest some of the defendants and seize proceeds located outside the US, industry experts began questioning over the weekend whether there was a future for these companies in other jurisdictions.

I know this is hardly an issue for most people playing out of the US and EU but there are already banks in Canada that will not let you play online poker even if you are in Canada, any idea if all this bad publicity is making other Canadian banks consider discontinuing online poker service?

iLvpoon is 3rd in the FTOPS #1 right now, and is from USA.. hope to see some USA at the final table.

Internet Gambling Payment Processing via Credit Cards from ALL Major Banks have for some YEARS now been MARKED with Codes to REJECT and NOT be allowed to process.

The Internet Gaming Companies have been using Third Party Wallets and Debit in Canada to get around this as well as SHADY Third Party Credit Card Payment Processing guys who do UNCODED Processing & RUN Away with the Deposits, it's happened to pretty much EVERY Major & Minor Internet Gambling Company.

You may also be interested in the following if you are OUTSIDE the US...

From the Financial Times:

With US prosecutors seeking assistance from law enforcement agencies abroad to arrest some of the defendants and seize proceeds located outside the US, industry experts began questioning over the weekend whether there was a future for these companies in other jurisdictions.

maybe that would be why I quoted DotheMath's post in the first place and hence my questions to try to get to the bottom of this complex legal situation. Many thanks for your valuable contribution.

Sorry, was being sarcastic about our freedoms obv

This is off topic and completely irrelevant. Posts like these are making the thread annoying to sift through and need to stop.

So what are the options for US players, residing in the US as of right now, if any? My FTP roll is frozen indefinitely (unless someone has any updated info), my wire for my full Stars roll is still showing pending. I don't want to play live, it just seems like a terrible way to make a living, especially here in Missouri. Are there sites that still accept US players, that have decent NLHE HU action at mid-stakes? Cake, perhaps? Where will all the US-based fish go, I wonder...

Does anyone know---If you do download the new update from fulltiltpoker.co.uk from america, can u still transfer money?

[ ] Proud to be an American right now

[x] Condolences to all neagtively affected

"...a country that even persecuted The Weavers..." nsfwy

how is he doing it though

I understand that you are making a Point of Law argument.

No doubt it will be played out in Federal Court by high priced Lawyers & a powerful Prosecution Team.

Due Process will take it's course the Legality will be argued.

BUT...IN THE MEAN TIME...

(1) US PLAYERS @ THESE SITES HAVE ZERO STRAIGHT FORWARD WAY OF GETTING THEIR $$$!

(2) Banks & Payment Processors Legit & SHADY will NOT touch them (the Sites & their Reps) with a TEN FOOT POLE,

(3) These Sites Have SHUT DOWN 70-80% off their Revenues & Customer Base OVERNIGHT,

(4) They are ALREADY FACED with Massive Withdrawals & SUPPORT REQUESTS,

(5) US Players @ these Sites CANNOT PLAY ANY MORE, they will try to Withdraw whatever they have

How long do you think they can Operate UNDER INDICTMENT REGARDLESS of the LEGALITY of POKER?

OR ANY LEGAL ARGUMENT THEY WIN OR NOT IN THE YEARS OF LITIGATION TO COME!!!

IT WILL TAKE YEARS TO WORK OUT & ARGUE THE LEGALITIES.

THE BUSINESS NEEDS TO BE RUN RIGHT NOW!

THE LEGAL ARGUMENTS ARE SEPARATE FROM RUNNING THE BIZ TODAY.

BTW...I graduated from the US, lived there for a few years, have Family there (some who serve) & conduct non-gaming Business there.

I do know & am more familiar with the US Justice System than you presume.

This is what I & others who DO THIS FOR A LIVING IN ONLINE GAMING THINK RIGHT NOW...

From the Financial Times:

With US prosecutors seeking assistance from law enforcement agencies abroad to arrest some of the defendants and seize proceeds located outside the US, industry experts began questioning over the weekend whether there was a future for these companies in other jurisdictions.

Let me put it simply:

No. You're ****ed.

If you're in the US, nothing FTP/Stars related is or will be accessible to you for a very very long time.

n/m...

What about all the other major poker rooms? Are US players allowed to play on their platforms?

Have they done any checks on Bwin and Ongame?

Uh, what's the plan for US players who don't plan on going anywhere to get THEIR money? :/

lol what freedoms are you referring to ?

you mean the ones that are being stripped from us right before our eyes ?

wake up man

the United States is becoming a police state in more ways that you realize.

believing that we live in a truly free society is very naive'

Please don't throw completely wrong numbers as fact in such a ******ed way.

US players represent at most 30% of FTP/Stars' total traffic. At most.

What's going to be interesting is to see how much of a bunch of bitches the US can turn these "jurisdictions" into through pure dictatorial pressure, because this is pretty much what it's going to come down to, since what FTP/Stars is doing is perfectly legal in said jurisdictions.

What a ****ing joke. This garbage country isn't even in the top 50 countries in the world in terms of individual freedoms, give me a ****ing break.

The level of governmental corruption makes African dictatorships blush from envy and the level of hypocrisy is unheard of in the history of mankind.

[ ] Proud to be an american

[ ] Land of the free

[x] **** this country

If you've read the 80 page indictment many times and understood the US Codes they are being accused of breaking, you would realize that this has nothing to do with the legality of online poker. They charges do not suggest online poker is illegal, but rather using US banks to fund online gambling. It is a clear violation of the UIGEA.

This has nothing to do with the indictment sounding convincing. It has to do with actual evidence. Any player who has deposited or withdrawn, realizes how they worked around the UIGEA. The indictment lists 30 or so deposits/withdrawals from each site, so clearly the DOJ was in the know.

Also when the weight of the illegal actions comes down on 15 or so people facing 25+ years, you better believe they will do whatever they can to cut a deal. There is no case to be tried. What defense do they have for using shill websites that transmitted incorrect merchant codes to banks in order for the charge to be approved? There simply is no defense. You can't say, well online gambling should be legal so we should be able to do this... yada yada. A violation of a law comes with consequences. You don't like the law, the US uses public policy to change those laws.

Please stop spreading hope that the case isn't as serious and heavily weighted against the Poker Companies as it truly is. The best case scenario here is they all take plea agreements, discontinue the service to US players, agree to cooperate to become regulated, and in return allow the disbursement of the remaining US players funds.

I don't think I would be trying to work with any site to collect my money on the side, outside of the current suit filed by the DOJ. As nice as it would be to get money off, I'm not giving the government any more of a reason to look into my online play.

U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
ELLEN DAVIS, CARLY SULLIVAN,
JERIKA RICHARDSON, EDELI RIVERA
PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICE
(212) 637-2600
FBI
TIM FLANNELLY, JIM MARGOLIN
PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICE
(212) 384-2100

let them know ur opinion imo