New Negreanu interview: hates Annie Duke, talks about beating Stars cash games (w/ DN comment) - Page 12 - Poker News

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New Negreanu interview: hates Annie Duke, talks about beating Stars cash games (w/ DN comment)

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08-24-2010 , 11:05 PM

#276

animefan48

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 404

Quote:

Originally Posted by vega66

In the UK where I am, the C word is completely standard. I use it with friends all the time. I guess in America its a much bigger thing ?

I remember on The Wire, McNulty calling his wife one lol.

From what I've heard, in the UK they use the C word like we in the U.S. use the B word, but in the U.S. calling someone the C word is a very, very big deal one of the harshest put downs.

Quote

08-24-2010 , 11:11 PM

#277

CocteauTwin

old hand

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,612

The C word used to be a bigger deal in the UK before I guess, but times change and the words become more of a standard put down like the B word. When a word is more frequently used it takes the power out of it making it less shocking and taboo.

Quote

08-24-2010 , 11:56 PM

#278

Burcak

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,422

I don't understand why whether or not DN used the "c-word" (lol) has any effect whatsoever on how Annie feels about this. He hated her before, he hates her now... nothing has changed as far as intelligent people are concerned imho.

As a side note, while these "n word" "c word" etc. taboos seem a bit childish for me, I have been playing poker in FTP for like a year now, and I can't remove my (Turkey) information. Me and my 2 turkish friends play a lot of tournaments lately, and about 3 times per night we somehow, somewhere get insulted based on our country of origin. Over a sample size of, like, 600 racist insults for me, there has been only 1 incident where someone from United States was doing it.

So while I think these taboos or "public rules" or w/e you call them (like n-word) are pretty childish, I realize they are part of a greater set of social contract, where Americans pay attention to show respect to a wide range of demands.

And as another completely unrelated side note, the record holder for "turkish pig" insults is Denmark followed closely by UK.

Anyway cliffs: I think making such a big deal out of c-word is wrong, but I sympathize with people who think otherwise.

Quote

08-25-2010 , 12:55 AM

#279

Phleggm

adept

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,036

Quote:

Originally Posted by CocteauTwin

BLOODY BOLLUCKS!

Quote

08-25-2010 , 01:28 AM

#280

apefish

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,618

I never would, but if I had to call a female a ****ing **** Annie Duke seems like a reasonable choice.

Quote

08-25-2010 , 01:30 AM

#281

VesperWoW

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 242

The fact some of you go through life looking for things to be offended by is very sad to me.

What a horrible empty way to live.

Quote

08-25-2010 , 02:40 AM

#282

gnvsnnkv

old hand

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,455

^^^ I did not read the whole thread, but I don't think it's about being offended. It's not even about A. Duke herself. It's about the concept that no man (gentleman) should ever call a woman indecently. Especially someone else's wife/etc. This is pretty [cowardly] and repulsive? It's fine to have a problem with Duke's actions or whatever Negreanu was upset about, but he absolutely had to, being who he is and stuff, deal with it professionaly. This has nothing to do with being outspoken or whatever. In this situation "c***" is more suitable to Negreanu himself imo.

Quote

08-25-2010 , 03:04 AM

#283

JRMac

stranger

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnvsnnkv

Especially someone else's wife/etc.

Why?

Quote

08-25-2010 , 03:04 AM

#284

AceMuncher

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,427

From Annie Puke's blog :

Quote:

An Open Letter to PokerStars

As many people in the poker community are aware, Daniel Negreanu recently called me a f**king c**t in an interview. In case you haven’t seen it, the interview is here.

It is no secret that Daniel and I don’t like each other. But this is not about whether he has valid reasons to dislike me. This is not about whether he is right or I am wrong in the particular argument that spurred the comment. This is about treating people with respect and the use of a word that is abusive and demeaning to all women.

When I saw PokerStars’ response to a customer who wrote in to complain about Daniel’s remarks, I was alarmed. (Read her letter here). Here is the response:

Hello ________,

Thank you for your email.

We are glad to hear that you are enjoying the Women’s Poker League and value
very much as one of our loyal female poker players.

Daniel and Annie are both passionate about poker, and both aren’t afraid to
speak their mind. I think this is a fact people like and appreciate about
both players. When you have two people that are similar in that regard,
there’s bound to be friction somewhere along the line.

Although Daniel Negreanu is a Team PokerStarsPro, he is an entity to himself
and as such will always be encouraged to express his views and speak his
mind as he would otherwise do so, PokerStars Pro or not.

I hope you will still enjoy watching both Daniel and Annie play as both are
fantastic poker players and an enrichment, on one way or another, for the
poker world.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further questions and
thank you for choosing PokerStars.

Regards,

Katja
PokerStars Support Team

I am shocked that PokerStars didn’t even distance themselves from Daniel’s comments in this response. In fact, they did quite the opposite. The most alarming part of the response is this section:

…and as such will always be encouraged to express his views and speak his
mind as he would otherwise do so, PokerStars Pro or not.

I am not offended by Daniel’s opinion. He has a right to disagree with me and dislike me. And I, just like PokerStars, would encourage him to express his views and opinions. This is not about his views. It is about a particular word he chose to express those views. The word “c**t” is not an opinion, it is an abusive epithet, and PokerStars is completely ignoring the use of that term in their response.

But more distressing is the use of the word encouraged here. So, PokerStars, you are encouraging Daniel to continue to express views in this manner, to conduct these public attacks using offensive slurs and inappropriate language? I am more than dismayed that PokerStars is making a statement here that they encourage this kind of behavior, this kind of language use. According to PokerStars, this kind of behavior enriches our community.

Why is it, then, that if you type the word into the chat box on PokerStars it comes out ****? Clearly, PokerStars finds this word offensive enough that they don’t allow their customers to use it to insult one another, yet they encourage their primary endorser’s use of the term.

So I have a question for PokerStars: Are you equally encouraging and accepting of Daniel expressing his own opinions and views if he utters the equivalent Anti-African American, Anti-Semitic or Anti-Gay epithets? Is it just the c-word that is okay with you? In my opinion, comments that are degrading to a person’s race, color, gender or sexual orientation are offensive and do not fall under the “that’s his opinion, not ours” category.

PokerStars recently formed The Women’s Poker League, presumably to support and encourage women in poker. Yet this response condones its star player calling a female poker player a “f**king c**t” in public. PokerStars had an opportunity here to take a stand and express regret that Daniel would say such an offensive thing and failed to do so.

I am curious as to what the NFL’s response would be if one of their players uttered that word to or about a female reporter. I am curious as to what Nike’s response would be if that player were an endorser of theirs. Would the NFL and Nike just shrug it off and say “his opinion, not ours?” I think not, and as long as the poker community is accepting of behavior and language like this, we will never be truly mainstream.

Again, this is not at all about whether you like me or whether you are on Daniel’s side of an argument. This is about PokerStars condoning an offensive term spoken publicly about me to a journalist by PokerStars’ biggest endorser. Like it or not, PokerStars, Daniel represents you and his behavior and choice of words reflects on you.

I would have expected a better response.

Annie Duke

People with such a mental age shouldn't be allowed to access casino premises. Lol at asking Pokerstars to act accordingly when so many players never got refunded a single dime from the UB cheat period.

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08-25-2010 , 03:18 AM

#285

Zinger

adept

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 792

Lex Velduis is the voice of reason!

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08-25-2010 , 03:25 AM

#286

feint06

adept

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 969

misleading thread title FTL. Wasted too much time only to find out DN didn't respond here (or comment), the thread just contains link to his response/comment.

Quote

08-25-2010 , 03:34 AM

#287

gnvsnnkv

old hand

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,455

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMac

Why?

I don't understand your question...

Quote

08-25-2010 , 03:41 AM

#288

DesertCat

I am a Regulator

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 13,744

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnvsnnkv

no woman should go out into the world, treat people like total ****, and expect that "gentlemen" won't call her on it. This is nothing new, Daniel has been publicly calling out Annie for atrocious behavior for over a decade. She's a slimy, bitchy, backstabbing, cretin, and this has been documented dozens of times by many people other than Daniel. Her unbelievably awful treatment of Adamo just last year justified her getting a physical, not just verbal, thrashing.

The word "c*nt" is a curse word only because women like Annie Duke created the need for it. A true gentleman would ever lie to a woman, I.e. he'd never call her just a bitch when she's clearly a c*nt.

Last edited by DesertCat; 08-25-2010 at 03:46 AM.

Quote

08-25-2010 , 04:05 AM

#289

gnvsnnkv

old hand

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,455

Quote:

Originally Posted by DesertCat

I think people are missing the point. It's not what she is/did really, fwsw, she can be a c***, a b****, or a "slimy, bitchy, backstabbing cretin" etc. It's just there are more uhm... [dignified/noble/honorable] ways for a man, deserving any sort of respect, to "call her on it". Just ask Gary Cooper... or Don Quixote.

Quote

08-25-2010 , 06:47 AM

#290

DonkeysAlwaysDrw

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 221

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernieshaw

When people have their guard down, for whatever reason (drunk, unaware a microphone is on, being spied on), it is usually the best way to see what kind of person they really are (right, Mel Gibson?). I think for those of us who have always known that Negreanu's public image is no where close to his petty, petulant and self-absorbed behavior when the camera is off just find it funny that he was caught exposing his true self. True, if it was said off-the-record and the writer reported it anyway, then the writer is a douche, but nevertheless, it was a moment when Negreanu's shields were down.

Watching the clip with Lansing tells us two things - First, Negreanu himself was and is well aware that using the c-word was something no classy person would ever do outside of joking with close friends, and certainly not for an article that was to be published. That's why we get his flailing excuse that it was supposed to be off-the-record-sorta-kinda-I-hope. Second, he knew it had a great chance to offend women in general because that particular word has that type of power. Whether or not his half-hearted apology in that clip was forced upon him by Pokerstars or he is self-aware enough to try to do damage control before Pokerstars steps in is up in the air.

As far as Pokerstars catering to Negreanu instead of the other way around, it is an absolute joke not to think that Pokerstars holds all the power in that relationship. Pokerstars was doing just fine before Negreanu's weird skin site collapsed and he joined them. Pokerstars would also do just fine if he left. Can you really think of anyone who would quit the site because Negreanu is no longer there?

Also, because Lederer (Annie's brother obviously) controls the only real alternative poker site for Negreanu to sign with, and will never sign him to anything, what kind of negotiating power do you think Negreanu continues to have?

As far as what Pokerstars thinks of using the type of language Negreanu did, one just needs to type Negreanu's quote into the Pokerstars client chat box and see how Pokerstars reacts. If they would ban someone for typing that in a chatbox while playing poker, why should they expect any less civility from one of their representatives in the press?

Gobbo does not think the C-word is on the level of the N-word, but he is wrong. You only use the C or N word if you harbor a level of anger and hostility towards that corresponding group of people that goes far beyond the immediate situation. Many of us would never use the N-word against anyone, even if a singular Black person did us great injustice and harm beyond any reason, because we are aware that it is an insult that extends beyond the one person in question. If we did, using the excuse "well, THAT person was a N-word, I didn't meant it beyond that..." is feeble and unacceptable, and you know it. The same goes for the C-word and women. And not because we (men) think or don't think it is as harmful, but because WOMEN think it is. And they do. How young, male poker players, some of whom are just as angry towards women as demonstrated, view the word is almost irrelevant. And you know this too.

Can we finally put to rest the notion that Negreanu is the classiest guy in poker? If he is so classy and fun-loving and cheerful, how come he has no poker superstar peers that express fondness for him on a personal level? Instead, he seems to have a beef with everyone and they mostly just ignore him.

+1

DN's a douche... big surprise... anyone that's read all the other threads lately about him in the past year already knows this.

Quote

08-25-2010 , 07:02 AM

#291

TopCat123

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,804

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnvsnnkv

It's about the concept that no man (gentleman) should ever call a woman indecently. Especially someone else's wife/etc. This is pretty [cowardly] and repulsive?

To say that is ridiculous to me. In a civilised society as in America, everyone was is supposed to have the same rights as anybody else. To say Daniel cannot call a woman a c*nt just for the reason that she is a female and not a male is a pathetic stance.

I can agree he shouldn't really have used the term about anyone, male or female because it is quite offensive for many people but he said it off-the-record in a conversation he believed would remain private. You cannot punish somebody for expressing their opinion, even if Annie Duke seems to think she can police what people say about her.

Cliffs
Daniel shouldn't really have said it but he has the right to.
Annie is an absolute ****** to believe she has any right to ask pokerstars or anybody else to reprimand Negreanu for what he said.

Quote

08-25-2010 , 07:13 AM

#292

TopCat123

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,804

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnvsnnkv

It's about the concept that no man (gentleman) should ever call a woman indecently. Especially someone else's wife/etc. This is pretty [cowardly] and repulsive?

Quote

08-25-2010 , 07:21 AM

#293

tripsONacid

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 643

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyde

go call your mother a c**t then and see if she sees it

I called your mother a ****. The **** ****ing loved it, so she did, the ****.

Quote

08-25-2010 , 07:24 AM

#294

Shamrock O'Donk

enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 67

main question is why hasn't DN replied here and explained the situation? not that he owes a bunch of nerds anything but obviously everyone wants to know. and he could probably clear the air quite easily.

Quote

08-25-2010 , 07:28 AM

#295

Ziplok

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 521

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonkeysAlwaysDrw

+1

DN's a douche... big surprise... anyone that's read all the other threads lately about him in the past year already knows this.

yup, if you ever want to form a certain opinion about a human being, read all the other threads lately about him!

Quote

08-25-2010 , 07:33 AM

#296

Mrtrebus

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,963

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-KKDL0-gzM

Quote

08-25-2010 , 08:48 AM

#297

bananee

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,058

tony g to the rescue!!!

Quote

08-25-2010 , 09:59 AM

#298

Rushmore

Lounge Laureate

Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 10,381

Quote:

Originally Posted by bananee

tony g to the rescue!!!

Tony G. is such a gentle soul, so very kind and determined to be sure that all of the people of Earth are happy and not in any way physically or emotionally molested. I'm glad we have him.

By the way, can a mod please go through this entire thread and ban every poster who misspelled the word woman as women?

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08-25-2010 , 10:01 AM

#299

DGDolly

grinder

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 661

I'm not the first to say it, but I don't get why Daniel gets so much hate on 2+2. He is a very likable guy. He realizes and understands how NLHE has changed and respects the HS players, he called Annie Duke a **** in public, he has a hot gf, the guy is living the life.

He actually used the word ****. PokerStars response is hilarious.