I think your timeline is too short (for America, anyway), but I think getting to the point where it's not a huge deal is something everyone can work towards.

coming out dosn't mean that they shout they are gay the moment they meet everyone. It just means they say "hey im gay, sup", and that's it. Some gay people are very vocal about gay rights and such, like myself, because we feel strongly that we need to help the many many many gay youth who are dealing with homophobia, hate. depression, self loathing, etc, (from their own friends and family no less). We also want equal ****ing rights.

When both of the above occur, when society actually accepts gays as equal citizens, then there will be no need for people to be so vocal. Until then, expect to hear "Ra Ra Ra gay rights!" shouted at the top of our fabulous lungs.

This thread is hard to read. I'm up to post 311. But this times over 9000 lol:

"You know what I hate? How people use tweets and blogs to talk about stuff that's going on in their lives. I mean, seriously, WTF do these people want, a cookie? Why do people have to talk about things that are important to them? Then when I actually have to hear about things I don't like or care about when I, ya know, go out of my way to read their blogs or clearly identified threads on those, whaddaya call them? webboards? Don't they know how much of an attention whore that makes them?"

Not to politard up this thread but...

I think your faith in America is greater than mine. Look at the presidential race. The current darling of the right is a rabid homophobe in the exact same vain as a KKK member.

To be fair I am Canadian and not a big fan of the US political system. I would guess that the US will be the last first-world nation to reach a point where homosexuality is totally accepted.

I think at work, unless we're talking about new employees, everyone pretty much knows the score on everyone else. There is no way to keep that kind of stuff hushed up. If a gay person at work was tell me he went out with his friend instead of boyfriend, I'm not going to think any less of him or hold it against him. It's his decision.

I'm against the notion that coming out has something to do with honesty, because that implies the gay person who isn't out is dishonest.

A gay person who isn't out (or isn't out in certain settings) often has to be dishonest in order to maintain their secret. Or at least not fully honest, often by omission.

That may be appropriate in certain settings, but multiple studies have shown a correlation between greater life satisfaction and happiness and being fully out, and the terms most frequently used are stuff like "being able to live openly and honestly". It's not about calling closeted people dishonest, it's about acknowledging that there's a part of you that you have to hide if you choose not to be out in certain settings.

You need to be patient and understand that as long as you make yourself visible (or vocal) there will be people out there who sill see you as a threat. You guys can fight for rights by law but your true emancipation will only happen when society, the people themselves, accept you. And the more shouting you do from your fabulous lungs the less likely that process will be a quick one.

Btw, it's not fair to attribute all the self-loathing and depression on discrimination from the outside. I probably don't need to tell you but a large part of it comes from within, an inability to accept oneself.

Godspeed Jason Somer.

An in ability to accept oneself due to a strong desire to conform to the rest of society. A deisre to want your parents to fully love and accept you, a desire to not lose friends and family because of desires you cant control.

I guarantee you that as homophobia disappears and as people become more accepting, GLBT youth and adult suicide and depression rates will drop off to heterosexual levels.

TBH, i am a threat to homophobic people. I'm part of a large growing movement of showing them to be the backwater, small minded, and deplorable people that they are.

Also, why is it that as gays have gotten more and more vocal over the last 200 years, we have seen more and more equality? Being quiet sheep has done no good in society to hate, look at the civil rights movement of the 60's. When did **** get done? When people got vocal.

If you dislike it, help us achieve equality, and we'll have less reasons to be so vocal.

I personally believe that your little plan is going to backfire on you big time. And for the love of god, what does this have to do with the civil rights movement? They are two completely opposite things.

lol avatar itt.

good man on having the courage to accept yourself enough to put it out there. Definitely a very strong turning point in your life. cheers.

Sorry to post again, it just really annoys me people don't quite get it still.

Someone who is queer/LGBT isn't just a guy who exclusively rogers men in the arse. That's how I see most straight people's understanding of this issue.

Of the dozen or so LGBT players, they make up different types of the rainbow. That is what might be hard for people to comprehend. The mode is bisexuality (and outwardly appearing hetero to most), but there are others.

Also, the total list has probably increased as the elite French, Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, Baltic, Polish, Italian, Belgian etc... players have all descended on London to be free and avoid tax.

It really is a strong concentration. My theory is just that poker is conducive to people of alternative lifestyles taking part.

One fun tidbit from running an online gaming site...it would absolutely shock most of you the amount of women that play poker online compared to men. In live events its lucky to be 4%, online it is more like 40%. They play and enjoy it, they just don't like the intimidation of live play from men. People just think poker is high stakes, there aren't many women there so they assume.

I want proof that 40% of online poker players are women.

i don't see any conceivable way your 40% estimate is even close to accurate

I didn't say it was! Just out of curiosity, what proportion of the general public do you think are gay/bi or whatever you want to call it, according to your definition of that? And so what multiple of this is the ratio for the "top poker players"?

Do not complain about moderation of this thread here.
The discussion of moderation of this thread is here in ATF:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/55/about-forums/how-worth-60-points-1169264/

Got to admit, I thought that comparing it to civil rights movement was a pretty stupid thing.

Play money counts.

Even my shut-in grandmother plays online poker and she didn't know how to use a computer until a couple years ago.

Nice proof.

If play money counts, why are you comparing it with playing in casinos?

Basically your point is bullshizzle.

Perez is the worst.
1. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...bc9y0ryeX6FH4g
2. He doesn't do this too much anymore, but used to defame pictures of people on his blog calling them fat, ugly, etc.
3. (applicable to this thread) Constantly leans on people he suspects to be gay to come out of the closet

Although I would be slightly uncomfortable if one of my friends came out and would be slightly disappointed if one of my brothers were gay, I definitely believe in supporting people 100 percent in their pursuit of happiness and their freedom of choice in doing so. If that for Jason means being closeted for 22 years, and then slowly coming out until now, good for him! If someone wants to remain forever closeted, that should be their choice as well.

The solution to the hatred that we see in society isn't to have multiple high profile gays come out of the closet, and it definitely isn't to coerce people into opening up about their personal lives. The solution is to offer them acceptance, understanding, and treating them exactly as we would have before.

I think the story behind this isn't the fact that Jason is gay (tbh, never heard of him). I think a better story is that the elite high stakes tournament community, in general, is extremely socially liberal and understanding about this. Ultimately, I believe the intelligent youth in our society will change things for the better, and the high stakes community is a microcosm of this. We have people like Vanessa, Ike, Prah, who are all very intelligent, and great role models.

Good posts protential.

This whole thread is absurd. But I guess it's all you can expect from NVG.

I don't know Jason all that well, had a few interactions with him over the years. He is definitely NOT an attention seeker though.

Ironic bigotry itt

I just wanted you to overcome your bias of thinking 2-4NL is low stakes. We both know there aren't many women above low stakes. It is not because they cannot compete.

Perhaps you can look at the Zynga poker base. It might be mostly women playing.

One thing poker sites look for in fraud is a female sign-up, real money players are about 15%, so if you get a rash of people that are female applying for rakeback affiliate or a big promo, it is likely to be the wife/grandmother/mother of an existing player. I know Neteller scrutinises female accounts quite a bit for this reason.

However, having a database of several hundred thousand members allowed me the insight to who really is playing. Women in general love games online as much as men, they just like different types of games. In poker they enjoy the social aspect more, while men enjoy the gambling aspect more.

It's 40% of accounts, I am not sure what pokerstars or partypoker is, but suspect around the same. I would suspect a raw sports centered betfair is like 85-15. I have been privy to this conversation actually, but forget the actual numbers.

That's a whole lot of words for absolutely 0 content.

Hullo! My name is Michael Piper. I've been a professional poker player living in London for almost 5 years; during that time I've played major tournament series at the Vic, Gutshot and Empire, and made friends with a lot of London pros, and have been fairly active on 2+2. Basically, I know a lot of poker players in London.

I know no LGBT poker players. Not even 'I know one or two but won't reveal their names'. I know none. I am bi, as I stated above, so you'd think that if there were poker players - pro, semipro, amateur, whatever - who wanted to come out, they might come out to me before other people, to ask for help or advice or just to be able to come out to someone who they know won't judge them. But no-one. I talked to other 2+2ers and no-one knows who you are.

Anyone? Anyone know who you are? Care to link to a hendon mob, or a pocket5s profile, or anything, so that we can have some vague idea of the likelihood of veracity of your claims?