exactly. this is what piz and many of the others itt dont get.

I didn't miss any of your point. How one person in semi-public life comes out is not the blueprint everyone of similar status must needs follow in order to not be an attention whore.

Nor does Jason's friendship to DN have any bearing on this whatsoever. Even if he is an attention whore, it does not logically follow that anyone who is friends with him is the same. Do labor under the delusion that friends eventually sync their behavioral traits or something?

Once again...



You keep throwing out ridiculous numbers and statistics and arguments that have no basis in fact or logic. Shaniac is spot on about you.

Sorry, but I stated only facts. This isn't court, hearsay is allowed. The only dispute is with the veracity of the factual claims I have made. They are true, so it really isn't something to argue about. Perhaps speculate on who, or wait for another room manager to confirm their gender percentages.

It makes gossip at lot less fun if you have to submit to cross-examination on petty details. I'm not pulling anyone's leg, I suppose I'm a bit surprised people don't see any issue through the eyes of both sides. I can perfectly respect where you are coming from, although I find your personality a bit stolid.

And birds of a feather tend to flock together, that's my assumption there.

No, this isn't court, however for respectful debate that matters logic is generally helpful and hearsay in the way you're using it is just a general way of saying "logical fallacies". Also you haven't really understood the other side of the arguement...you seem to repeat yourself and while I don't hold your views against you they just seem really first level (honestly, when reading through this 4+ page thread I kinda just started skimming your replies after a while as opposed to others who i completely skipped and others who I read a couple times).

And herein lies the problem, I'm not saying you personally gossip in this manner, but gossip and rumors are some of the more subtle ways to entrench homophobia, because, while I love to gossip, Im always careful who with and about what, because gossip taken out of context or with elements of "meanness" for lack of a better word at the moment can, and do really hurt people in the long run.

I feel like you are a tolerant person but, like alot of people, have trouble truly understanding the frame of mind of someone who comes out...in fact from some of my extremely liberal friends I used to get "why didn't you tell us before" just because to THEM it was no big deal...which is amazing...but in my head there was always some subconscious doubt that they would disaprove, note that I'm writing here under a gimmick account, clearly that underlies my state of mind even though I AM out in a manner of speaking.

So for you it may be "attention whoring" or run of the mill material but i don't currently think you can imagine the courage it most likely took to make that blog post, even if the content shouldn't really affect any of our lives in any way.

I completely agree.

You can definitely attention whore if you want to though. I was just objectively putting it out there in this case out of respect to those who are already out there before him.

I didn't bother naming anyone either as I agree it could be hurtful with all the homophobes lurking. I just said there are way more than everyone is making out and cited an example of my knowledge of British players. Even if someone I know is out, it doesn't necessarily mean they want media attention.

I suppose what is considered being out is the question here. Alerting the media isn't to me requisite for being out. I think staying true to yourself and not hiding anything, like in the case of Rosie Jones, is being out.

There are plenty of things in my life I try to keep a bit quiet for whatever reason, even though I never hide it. Being a poker player is one. I don't tell everyone I am a poker player randomly for fear of their ignorance to what it actually means to be one. And there is some real prejudice out there for this, customs, other people's SOs, banks and random people at the country club are only the beginning. That doesn't mean I'm not out as a poker player.

Your ignorance of Russian has actually made a funny here when you say it. :-)

Denis rodman has elaborate tattoos, and is wearing a dress, with a tiger, while smoking a cigar...



your argument is, therefore, valid.

Alright Pizdec, I guess I can understand the point you really want to make, I would just moderate your tone/POV to a point where its not being called media whoring. You're simply stating that there are other gay, out, poker players who have not gotten this kind of attention for being out, and in contrast Jason's blog post looks like garish self-promotion. You don't help your case by throwing out semi-random statistics or even giving a number of people, it just makes people like me peeved .

As a response to the arguement I just forced upon your posts possibly unfairly I would reply imagine all the negative responses you fear about people knowing you're a poker player...imagine that except on an incalculably larger scale about a personal fact that makes up an extremely large facet of your life and waking thoughts that you cannot change and your afraid of anyone knowing, not just customs or banks or idiots who cannot understand poker as a job.

The media is not a requisite to being out in this day and age in the slightest, although the public statement Jason made is akin to coming out as political activism for the cause not only personal validation similar to what the LGBT movement wanted everyone who could to do in the last part of the 20th century. By knowing your school teacher was gay, your next door neighbor, that star athlete, that poker player on TV it all of a sudden becomes not something to hide, but something to celebrate and share...the same way most of 2+2 loves celebrating them titties in as many threads with memes as possible.

So, yes, I guess Jason was "attention whoring" in some ways, but that aspect of his blog post wasn't for himself, it was for everyone and anyone who would read it and maybe change their opinions a little bit, or some kid reading these boards who all of a sudden see's that poker players aren't all heterosexual NVGtards...there are homosexual NVGtards as well Look through the topics in this forum, there hasn't been a discussion like this one I can recall since I joined the boards ~3 years ago. So not only did he provide a public service, and as far as I'm concerned he did, he did so in a situation in which there are costs to what he did (the sheer conviction and courage needed to do this must've been immense as I've said a bunch of times).

EDIT: Also I would like to point out that, perhaps thanks to amazing modding, there are less ad hominem attacks in this thread than there were last time I got in a serious conversation on 2+2 regarding game theory in NVG...so well done guys and gals.

I definitely agree with this.

Negreanu built quite a career being outspoken and voicing his opinion. If you stay silent you don't necessarily deserve the same rewards as those who actively fought the battles.

I'm glad at least in some places in the world, people no longer have to fight over this issue. Perhaps those living in such places should be more active in fighting in the places where you must. A lot of the people saying so what are probably living in these places and raised properly (as I was).

I was actually born in America, so I understand how ridiculous of a place it can be sometimes. You can have the most intelligent and progressive people and at the same time the worst of the worst trying to bring everyone sane down, and actually succeeding.

Can we all agree on this?

Hey, I've played about as long as him and been openly gay much longer, where's my thread!?

Congrats, Jason. So glad to finally have someone representing me and our brothers and sisters in the poker world. And judging from your essay there, you seem about as cool a guy as we could hope for. This may not seem like a big deal, but it is. I bet your presence alone will inspire some gay fish to come into our shark tanks

Congrats again

My reaction was more "Who the hell is Jason Somerville"

but cheers on coming out, hopefully the rest of the world wakes up

'My reaction was more "Who the hell is Jason Somerville"'

Not sure, now I'm pretty sure about his future biographer though.

ya know, its like the saying goes, in the poker game of life, women are the rake. they are the ****ing rake

Ummmm...he's the first high profile player to have the guts to come out publicly. This is a HUGE deal. Poker is like many sports in this respect. The vast majority of gay athletes in all major sports in the US (I can't speak of the world) remain in the closet whether they are in the NFL, NBA, UFC, or boxing. The fact remains that there is huge discrimination against homosexuals both emotionally and financially (they tend to be far less marketable).

To act like coming out of the closet is not a big deal is ridiculous.

It is so damn tilting that gay people announcing their sexual preferences is considered a good thing. What if I have a different sexual fetish that isn't commonly accepted? Should I come out and say, "Yeah I am really into golden showers. And this is really important for all of you guys to know. People with the same desires as me face a lot of hardships and hopefully this will make it more acceptable." Do you see how this is stupid? Something like that will hurt someone's career and I am not sure how being gay is some special "atypical" sexual fetish that needs extra attention. This is why in general people don't say *anything* about their sexual preferences in the USA. I mean the whole topic of sex is extremely taboo back home and if anything that is the real problem.

Seriously it is just so stupid to me that this is a big deal at all. I honestly chalk this up as stupid attention whoring.

Glad that the gay community is finally being allowed to come out with fear of negitive retribution. We just legalized gay marriage here in Washington a couple weeks back

This post is awful in so many ways I'll leave it for Protential or someone to tell you why

Being gay is not the same as having a fetish. Also, posts like yours are proof as to why coming out is hard for some, so nice job helping illustrate the point.

I think that people should be able to talk about their golden shower fetishes or w/e without facing social stigma. Same goes for drug use, religious beliefs, etc, so long as the activities don't harm others. Anything that furthers personal freedoms and promotes tolerance is probably a good thing. Why should it matter that you know that someone likes to do activity X - why should it be taboo? Do your own thing so long as it makes you happy and let others do the same without judging them, ffs, I don't understand the American obsession with restricting what other people can do.

Bleh - your point of view here has me so tilted. Last year I was with a group of ignoramuses who were watching "Breaking Bad" and talking about how realistic it was, and they acted horrified when I said I'd smoked meth before, even though they'd known me for a long time, people suddenly started acting differently around me. Ridiculous.

Played with JCarver a bunch both online and a couple times at WSOP, cool guy and really, really good player, glad he's comfortable with himself, it shouldn't be a big deal to anyone who he chooses to sleep with.

Keep crushing at the tables JCarver and I wish you all the best (except when you're 3betting me every second hand obv)

This. It is 2012. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

And you can always count on Daniel Negreanu...
To piggy-back on every last instance of...
"Stupid attention whoring"...
Daniel spends 24/7/365 grovelling for attention...
Spamming the world with his squeaky, fey, nice guy act.

Isn't a lot of the 'marriage' thing purely about definition, i.e. marriage means man and woman? Or is that just the argument that bigots use to deny it.

What about a gay man marrying a gay woman, that'd show 'em.