I genuinely didn't know that (i'd have bet my roll that it's been discussed in EPL before), but you're just trolling me here, classy guy as always.

You're a bit insane if you don't think there is even an argument that environment plays a part, which even many gay people themselves suggest, and the research is at best inconclusive.

But then I guess Raz gonna Raz and just profess to know everything definitively, even when it's unpossible to do so.

proof?

thats what i thought. nobody can show proof for any of the speculations being made about nature vs nurture.

The bottom line is that some people are attracted to the same sex, some people are attracted to the opposite sex, and some people are attracted to both. Like it or dont like it, its the truth.

the reasons for attractions are just things that people like to argue about forever because there can never be any proof.

so get over it, and move on with your lives.

What didn't you know? How am I trolling you? It's a question designed to get you to understand how silly your own question was. Something that has gone right over your head.

I don't believe there is any evidence environment, in terms of the way you are thinking of it, plays a role whatsoever. I don't profess to know everything what are you even talking about? I am stating my opinion on the environmental issue, like you have asked? You are quite insane tbh.

How about secondary psychological effects which may result from alienation from their peers?

strawman.jpg

Being intellectually dishonest isn't clever imo but carry on.

As if kids need a reason to alienate other kids, that factor is extremely overplayed by the evangelical right in the US...I can't say it's not a factor, but if you're going to judge relationships based upon the offspring produced then there are MANY more couples who prescriptively shouldn't have children before the vast majority of committed gay couples. Think of all the teen moms, children of smokers and alcoholics, and really any other environmental factor which could negatively affect a child's life.

What? Strawmanning in what way? How am I being intellectually dishonest? Wow, you are amazing.

Protential already mentioned that children raised by gay couples are statistically just as likely to be happy, healthy, and adjusted, but the studies in this field are obviously somewhat minimal.

In childhood I wouldn't be surprised if some kids raised by gay couples were at higher risk for some form of peer abuse and/or rejection but those effects don't appear to be strong or long-lasting based on the current overall results. Which isn't that surprising - if the number of children who spent some of their childhood as outcasts or who were mercilessly teased for some reason all grew up maladjusted, there would be a hell of a lot of really ****ed up adults.

I would think a lot of gay couples with kids go out of their way to try to pick more progressive schools/systems, which might mitigate some of the risk.

i dont know what you know about kids. but kids generally dont care who another kids parents are. they are more interested in who you are.

any kid that would alienate another for that reason is easy to target as someone you shouldnt hang out with, thus improving the person that you are by surrounding yourself with good and rational people.

I think you overestimate how good kids, at least younger kids, are at accepting it when someone calls them names and says they don't want to be friends.

For older kids this might be a decent point, however.

Really? When that kid turns up to parents' evening with 2 fathers, that's not going to feel really awkward to them? Or when parents don't want their kids going round to the house because it's a same sex partnership and they don't want a gay couple around their kid? Don't forget at young ages the parents have a controlling factor over their child's social life.

Debate nicely.

You have shown that this is actually not true at all.

I spent more time at university speaking to gay friends about their experiences than probably any other single topic, since I didn't know any gay people beforehand and lived with 2.

So yes, it is true.

I'm confused and curious - double entendre intended - what was your social/sexual life like before you were 18?

Yeah I don't get that too. I can only go by my own experience, but in Jason's blog he stated he already knew he was gay but at the same time, he also thought it was just a phase and that he should keep trying with women. I honestly don't see how any one can be "confused" by their sexuality. Even gay for pay is confusing to me. Idk if anyone can truly separate sex and sexuality but then again, there's the whole prison sexuality thing.

This, but I'm not sure even if it matters that it is a progressive school. I think economics dictate sanity in this case more or less. I went to a strict catholic school. We had a gay and lesbian in our class. I'm not sure they even necessarily knew themselves as it was grade 4 and 5, but classmates, teachers, and parents certainly knew what was going on.

Everyone was just told that's how life is and treat people like you want to be treated. Everyone got along, gay guy was even a cheerleader for grade 6. Most in the class went on to happy and wealthy lives. I never heard a single epithet used once there. That changed in public high school however.

this is an easy way to socialize with the open minded. There will be some discrimination, but there will also be discrimination due to race and socio-economic class, as well as other factors. each child has there own hurdles to get over. having same sex couples means that there are same sex parents, that is a fact of life and just one of the many hurdles kids face when negotiating the dynamics of public education.

But the benefits of having two loving and stable parents certainly outweighs the social hurdle that comes with it.

and there are far too many children without parents in this country for us to be worried about what gender the parent are.

Always glad to oblige.

Sex is physiological - there is a ton of research demonstrating that people can become aroused and complete sexual acts outside of their normal orientation under the current circumstances. Very few would argue that rape is not a heinous crime, but some women climax during it. How is this possible when they are being violated? Because you cannot control a purely physiological response.

Sexual orientation involves attraction, emotion, and adult attachment processes like caregiving and comforting that fall outside the spectrum of sex.

Most people are probably more sexually fluid in their capacity for specific acts with someone they aren't traditionally attracted to under the correct circumstances, but most people don't go out trying to find those circumstances (prison being one example).

when you have not experienced something, its perfectly normal to "not get it" or "be confused" about how another person can go through things. Even if you want to understand it, there's a chance that you never will. So dont worry if you "dont get that too"

I was shy and awkward, slowly improving as time goes by. My social life in high school was limited, sexual life non-existent. When I turned 18, I went to college, so things changed somewhat.

I'm sure there is plenty of research for this, but i bet there is also plenty of trials in which people were not aroused under those circumstances. If this is the case, then, at best, the research only proves that it can happen to some people. It proves nothing else

Because you start to realize that you are attracted to people of the same gender, but you grew up expecting that to not be the case. The confusion comes in, at least for me, when you try to figure out what these unexpected feelings are while wondering where the expected ones are. Maybe it's just another word for denial more than anything else.

You make it very hard to debate. Since you ban or send infractions to anyone who disagrees with you. Why would anyone even touch this thread anymore.

I'm going to say this one last time; any additional posts that discuss moderator issues IN THIS THREAD will result in an infraction and a temp ban.

If you have a problem with any deletions, there is already a thread in ATF, or you can start your own, and I will be more than happy to explain each and every decision I've made in reference to this thread.