No offence taken. I just found it funny that you responded with a question whose answer to you was self evident while my reaction to the question was, duh how should I know? The "duh" is not directed at you.

Thanks for the answers.

This is almost getting religious now.

Nobody has a monopoly on news or credible sources.

problem is 95% of people don t have creditable sources

Please don't stop posting in here! You are the reason why the sane 2+2ers come to this thread, the vast majority of us value your opinions and facts!

Trolls will be trolls and SGT is doing her best to get em down to the minimum. Thx for all your work in this thread .

I think this is more a case of deciding whose economic ox will get gored, and then using some hollow reasoning as an excuse for a decision, than it is applying law to facts. You have a government judge ruling in favor of a government seizure of funds. The reasoning for the ruling is lightweight to be kind. The funds seized from FTP were almost certainly 99.99999% players funds and to rule that the players have no interest in them because they cannot prove which co-mingled dollar is their is, to my way of thinking, non-sensical. These are not pre-paid service contracts with uncertain value, these were cash accounts with balances available to see at every moment. I am unimpressed that government lawyers presented an argument and the judge went for it. I think if you look you will see that non-government lawyers had a very different point of view.

To me it doesn't pass the "fifth grader" test; i.e., if explained the facts and then asked a bunch of fifth graders whose money it was, I feel certain they would say it was the players' money and not the governments. We all hope the government will be nice and remit funds to the players but this ruling says that if the government wants, it can keep the funds and give the players nothing. Sound fair and just to you?

As to fiduciary duty, that arises any time someone holds the property of another pursuant to a promise, or promises, to hold it in accordance with certain conditions. I think it is undisputed that FTP made representations and inducements that would give rise to fiduciary obligations on its part with regard to funds received. The government argues, and you seem to accept, that FTP's actions were at all times fraudulent and; therefore, the funds were received fraudulently and never were subject to being held by FTP as a fiduciary. Everything I learned about the law says that FTP's fraudulent behavior was a violation of its fiduciary responsibilities and not that the fraud some how prevented the formation of the fiduciary relationship.

A large part of the motivation for ruling that the players have no justiciable interest in the seized assets may well be the judge wishing to avoid the messy prospect of having thousands of claimants vying for the seized assets. My personal opinion is that the decisions, regarding the players' interests in the seized assets and the failure of formation of a fiduciary relationship because of pre-occurring fraud, are intellectually and factually vacuous and made primarily for the benefit of the government and the convenience of the court. IMHO, it would be more just and logically sound to find that the players, as a group, had an interest in the seized funds (since virtually all of them came from players) and that the funds were held with fiduciary obligations pursuant to the representations made by FTP (I know of no law that says that because a person acts fraudulently they are relieved from responsibility for their promise, in fact the law is to the contrary).

I think a lot of people basically scan this thread for posts by good posters like you, but don't get involved in the discussions much. Anyway, that's what I do, so please keep it up. Thanks.

havnt heard any news over a month yet thread is still thriving....

i thought full tilt might be back online today so i tried to log into my account.. no luck though

I dunno about thriving...

In all seriousness though. If it's been a month the deal is probably dead.

I thought PS was coming in to save the day. Is there a reason to believe that this deal failed other than the silence? DOJ nor pokerstars are allowed to say anything while in negotiations.

You answered your own question.

Sorry, My Has failed me. People really need to catch up with the tour here.

D.F. I know it's difficult but please do not stop posting itt. I have read a lot of your posts and find the info you have given us to be quite helpful.

Never mind the trolls and haters
Keep on doing what your doing.

So we've reached an all new low of having moderators trolling? Nice.

Whats the point in having this thread...just a load of random arguments about things that most of us know nothing about.

We dont know what is going out besides the likes of diamond and that...yet this thread is in the first page of NVG every day.

I check it and its two or three ******s arguing over something they dont have a clue about or are assuming ****.

Every day is the random next week joke or the troll who appears out of nowhere and says there will be knew on the 16,17th or on tuesday...

Last we know is pokerstars are in discussion with doj?? Leave it at that and wait...I know a load have money locked up but this thread is just ful of ****

Meh. Not real sure my sarcastic quip would be trolling. More so just trying to make light of a bad situation and hoping people begin reading the thread before posting the same comments/questions over and over.

I know! And like, it totally sucks how 2p2 forces you to open the thread and read all of the replies! Is this not America??!?!?

This thread exists and remains open because if it didn't then there would be 5 different threads on the first page of NVG everyday spreading the nothingness that this one spreads in one thread. If you think this thread is pointless, think of how pointless it would be if it weren't contained. If you really think that if this thread didn't exist nobody on the biggest poker forum in the world wouldn't talk about the biggest poker story of all time then you are incorrect and naive.

This thread exists purely because if it didn't, there would be 10 new threads on the first page of NVG all the time with random guys asking what's going on with FTP or starting a new thread every time they wanted to spout nonsense.

This is the FTP **** thread. Real news would get its own thread. No big news is coming here. Ever. It exists only to keep NVG from being bombarded with content-less FTP threads.

Copy and paste below code into Google and search:

it goes something like this...

i open NVG with the .0000000000001% chance of hope that there will be some new thread about the deal being announced, player repayment play announced....

then when nothing is there, i decide to torture myself by reading this thread....

then i promptly return to my hole of depression and busto-ness.

LDO but how could you possibly call the contents ITT nothingness? Are you a Buddhist?

Fair enough on your behave as it would be a pain in the arse if there were loads of threads.


Im just pissed that i log on and see the thread at the top of the page and check it and its just people arguing over legal matters,when no-one knows what is going on.


As you said i dont have to come here but just i feel its mandatory every day just in case theres something new.

Thanks you for stating exactly what the mod above you just said.

That's completely unnecessary. If you don't see a new FTP thread, there's nothing new you'd want to know. Don't feel the need to torture yourself for no reason.

This thread should close on weekends. Just sayin

try again next week

Obv. we all read this thread with hope for positive news.. We all know if breaking news happens it will be all over the place. I enjoy this thread, it makes us realize we are not alone.

My biggest pet peeve is everyone who whines and says this thread should be closed. Its like do you guys have an addiction problem that you can't stop yourself from opening this thread unless it's deleted and gone???