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01-21-2014 , 04:15 AM

#76

Kilowatt

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This "contract" crap was the same nonsense some Lock pros used last year when questioned why they stayed on.

It's not a legally valid excuse.

You are allowed at any time to terminate a contract for illegal services (of which Lock currently is in the US, even ignoring the scam part), provided you return the money for the unused services.

So if I signed a contract to promote Juan Valdez the cocaine dealer in my neighborhood for 12 months, and then thought better of it after one month, I could legally terminate our contract and pay him back 11/12 of what he gave me. He could not successfully sue me for breach of contract.

However, if I was selling briefcases to Juan and had a year contract with him, I couldn't terminate it even if I knew he was using them for his drug business, since selling briefcases is not illegal.

Cardplayer is directly advertising both an illegal service and a scam, and could terminate the contract at any point.

They just don't want to, for reasons that are obvious to everyone.

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01-21-2014 , 05:44 AM

#77

Gin 'n Tonic

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UK players, please report Cardplayer Magazine to the Advertising Standards Authority

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01-21-2014 , 06:17 AM

#78

xalas

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Surely there must be a contract termination clause

I think it would be best to make him aware of this issue, I wouldn't be insulting to him, let him know that people are being ripped off by Lock and he needs to act quickly as allowing them to advertise with cardplayer is currently harming the reputation of him and his business.
give him the information and facts, just trolling isn't going to help and likely to be ignored.
https://twitter.com/barry_shulman
https://twitter.com/CardPlayerMedia
https://www.facebook.com/cardplayer
http://www.barryshulman.com/contact

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01-21-2014 , 07:59 AM

#79

GoogledYou

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The schulmans look like scumbags aswell IRL. lol

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01-21-2014 , 09:44 AM

#80

EvilGreebo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by xalas

Surely there must be a contract termination clause

IANAL - but I did work for a legal department for some time. Oh and I stayed at a Holiday Inn...

There probably is - but breaking a contract without a legal basis (ie: CONVICTION of improper conduct/fraud/etc - would be possible grounds for Lock to turn around and sue CardPlayer for breach and that would in turn cost CardPLayer lots of legal expenses.

You can't just break a contract because you feel like it - you need concrete reasons and Lock is scummy enough they've done all these dances to maintained semi-plausible deniability in court. (All the public accusations against their partners, complaints about problems with payment agents, etc)

Hopefully CardPLayer will do the right thing when the contract expires and not renew. Of course, if they already renewed a contract with the allegations already out there - that's a different story. But I doubt any of us are on the inside to know if that's happened.

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01-21-2014 , 10:07 AM

#81

tgallant

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Quote:

Originally Posted by xalas

Surely there must be a contract termination clause

I think it would be best to make him aware of this issue, I wouldn't be insulting to him, let him know that people are being ripped off by Lock and he needs to act quickly as allowing them to advertise with cardplayer is currently harming the reputation of him and his business.
give him the information and facts, just trolling isn't going to help and likely to be ignored.
https://twitter.com/barry_shulman
https://twitter.com/CardPlayerMedia
https://www.facebook.com/cardplayer
http://www.barryshulman.com/contact

Sent Barry a message via barryshulman.com/contact

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01-21-2014 , 10:18 AM

#82

SwoopAE

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lol @ integrity is honoring contracts line

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01-21-2014 , 10:35 AM

#83

Gin 'n Tonic

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It's total crap. Any magazine reserves the right to withdraw advertising for pretty much any reason at any time.

Fwiw the rack rate for Lock's UK magazine advertising is $5,000 /month. If they're doing the same in the US (double inside front cover) the rate is $40,000 /month.

Integrity my arse.

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01-21-2014 , 11:29 AM

#84

BeerBottlez

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$40k a month? LOL. If they got a long term deal it's probably a little less but still.

Maybe people who are owed money should just contact cardplayer for your Lock balances since funds are being forwarded to them from advertising dollars.

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01-21-2014 , 11:55 AM

#85

Bonified

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I think it's pretty unlikely that Lock would voluntarily go to court to have all their dirty laundry aired if CardPlayer stopped advertising them.

Short answer, Shulmans like money, have no ethics.

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01-21-2014 , 01:12 PM

#86

MonsterJMcgee

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The honoring their contract line is hilarious.

Insane that they even think they can pass that off as a justification to keep promoting Lock. I guess they assume we're all idiots?

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01-21-2014 , 02:01 PM

#87

EvilGreebo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Gin 'n Tonic

It's total crap. Any magazine reserves the right to withdraw advertising for pretty much any reason at any time.

If true, then I agree, it puts CP in a much less positive light. Can you provide a copy of the contract CP uses for its advertising deasl?

One other thought hit me though - doesn't that "honoring contracts" statement seem to imply something like "we know Lock is scummy but we're not sinking to their level"? It kind of read as a slam on Lock to me in one possible light at least.

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01-21-2014 , 02:41 PM

#88

Deuce2High

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I made a twitter status today if anyone wants to R/T it.

https://twitter.com/MarioSilvestri3/...98461472681984

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01-21-2014 , 03:04 PM

#89

ChicagoRy

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~$40,000 a month? Well that certainly explains it then.

Would probably take a lot of customers (and probably dozens of pros) pressuring them to stop.

If paying them anywhere near that is +EV for Lock, just imagine all the fish deposits that go down the drain to Lock Poker right now (that could be going to safer sites)?

Imagine all the fish that get a bit lucky, try to cashout, then just quit poker after waiting 6+ months for a cashout, feeling every site must be like this ripoff Lock that they deposited on.

Terrible.

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01-21-2014 , 03:07 PM

#90

Deuce2High

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ChicagoRy

~$40,000 a month? Well that certainly explains it then.

Would probably take a lot of customers (and probably dozens of pros) pressuring them to stop.

If paying them anywhere near that is +EV for Lock, just imagine all the fish deposits that go down the drain to Lock Poker right now (that could be going to safer sites)?

Imagine all the fish that get a bit lucky, try to cashout, then just quit poker after waiting 6+ months for a cashout, feeling every site must be like this ripoff Lock that they deposited on.

Terrible.

+1 Precisely my thoughts.

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01-21-2014 , 03:43 PM

#91

macgyver72

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It's possible Lock is paying the new customers that have deposited when they cash out. Just because I've been waiting for 8+ months for my withdrawal doesn't mean they aren't capable of paying other players that have deposited and are currently playing on the site in much shorter time spans.

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01-21-2014 , 03:49 PM

#92

MonsterJMcgee

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Deuce2High

I made a twitter status today if anyone wants to R/T it.

https://twitter.com/MarioSilvestri3/...98461472681984

I think you have the wrong twitter handle in your tweet. It's @CardPlayerMedia

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01-21-2014 , 03:49 PM

#93

EvilGreebo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by macgyver72

It's possible Lock is paying the new customers that have deposited when they cash out. Just because I've been waiting for 8+ months for my withdrawal doesn't mean they aren't capable of paying other players that have deposited and are currently playing on the site in much shorter time spans.

I'll be finding out.

I found out that Lock took Marylanders and didn't stop to research them first. Deposited $300, then read up on them.

Put in my withdrawal request last week. We'll see. I'm counting it as stupid tax though.

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01-21-2014 , 04:13 PM

#94

shipit2kg

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ChicagoRy

~$40,000 a month? Well that certainly explains it then.

Would probably take a lot of customers (and probably dozens of pros) pressuring them to stop.

If paying them anywhere near that is +EV for Lock, just imagine all the fish deposits that go down the drain to Lock Poker right now (that could be going to safer sites)?

Imagine all the fish that get a bit lucky, try to cashout, then just quit poker after waiting 6+ months for a cashout, feeling every site must be like this ripoff Lock that they deposited on.

Terrible.

this.

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01-21-2014 , 04:15 PM

#95

BeerBottlez

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ChicagoRy

Imagine all the fish that get a bit lucky, try to cashout, then just quit poker after waiting 6+ months for a cashout, feeling every site must be like this ripoff Lock that they deposited on.

Fantastic point!

Lock Poker gives the industry a bad name. For the uneducated people who've never read a poker forum or site in their life which is a lot of live players they may deposit only to get this horrible experience you've described and avoid online poker for a long time.

If this happens it hurts everyone involved in online poker in the long run including Cardplayer.

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01-21-2014 , 04:16 PM

#96

Deuce2High

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterJMcgee

I think you have the wrong twitter handle in your tweet. It's @CardPlayerMedia

Thanks. Deleted. New one below!

https://twitter.com/MarioSilvestri3/...22860192014336

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01-21-2014 , 05:40 PM

#97

GSobvShill

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More spam to retweet if anybody wants, but twitter seems quite useless until somebody with recognition in the wider poker loving public starts addressing the issue.

https://twitter.com/gamblingsht/stat...42807714652161

they clearly can wait it out until something bigger comes along.

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01-21-2014 , 06:45 PM

#98

Gin 'n Tonic

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Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilGreebo

If true, then I agree, it puts CP in a much less positive light. Can you provide a copy of the contract CP uses for its advertising deasl?

One other thought hit me though - doesn't that "honoring contracts" statement seem to imply something like "we know Lock is scummy but we're not sinking to their level"? It kind of read as a slam on Lock to me in one possible light at least.

I took a good look around their site, but I couldn't find an advertisers' contract. But if you look at their Terms of Use for the website you'll find that they go to into considerable legalese to deny any responsibility for pretty much anything.

I 100% guarantee you that their advertising contract allows them to withdraw an advert at their sole discretion or somesuch.

2+2 does this in their commercial marketplace, it's totally standard.

Quote:

We reserve the right to deny or revoke Marketplace privileges to any poster or company associated with questionable behaviour or activity, past or present, on-site or off.

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01-22-2014 , 11:17 AM

#99

moki

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cjc2

Poker players will never organize because most are lazy bastards and they see the word "union" as synonymous with "cheese"

fyp

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01-22-2014 , 12:07 PM

#100

Dozer55

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centurion

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All I can do is cancel my subscription with CP mag. to show my support on this issue. (Orso 33566)

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