In Spain there is a saying that translates as the thief thinks everyone suffers his condition.

+1 for best comment from shane

Bingo

I'm sure if you asked Koon before this happened what he would do in this scenario, he'd be sure that he wouldn't cheat just like many of us are. It's absolutely unacceptable behavior and there's no excuse for it.

lots of the ppl hating on jungle itt would jump at the opportunity of being ghosted in a bigger multiday wcoop/scoop final table by some crusher and I dont blame you, half the final table is ghosted every god damn time. A finaltable in a wcoop/scoop series is for lifechanging money for some of the final 9, which sorta makes sense why those keeps jumping at the ghosting so in that sense I guess jungles behaviour is worse as its just basic greed over a potential huge shift in lifecourse but for some reason myself personally, I find the ghosting on a FT in a MTT worse.

I guess it boils down to the fact that the increased EVROI% of being ghosted isnt overtaking the sense of pride and accomplishment I would feel if I managed to bink a huge mtt.

"PRIDE AND ACCOMPLISHEMNT? LOLDONKAMENTS" at me if you want. Still, it would be my greatest night in onlinepoker by far and something id remember for a long time, probably would remember every goddamn hand played on the FT, I bet jungle doesnt even remember the lineup in his game on this given night or two.





Not gonna lie, Bill´s comment about MP superusing for "tip money" alone threw all sympathy I ever could have for him. MP probably rekt dozens of average joes for most of their roll as he played for what? 9 months with aid from the ****ing booth.

As I said ITT the information I had was what has came out...

In addition, private chat of 75 HSNL pros mostly all sticking up for Jungle and feel
Perkins is an idiot for causing this trouble.

Also, just simply go to YouTube. Type in Dan B and Perkins Poker... you will see Blitz ghosting Perkins account and them playing together


Please don’t say Blitz a fish whale, he is likely the biggest NLH winner in history

Am I the only one applauding jungle, if he really got a bunch of $ from that fraudster Bilzerian? I mean its pretty much known, that he got his money from his father, who defrauded a lot of people. His live is full of legal issues, random stuff like bomb making charges and what not.

Its kinda funny that he is now crying around.

good job jungle

Of course the HS pros are sticking up for Jungle. This is how they make a living.

Not at all. Most pros agree with what he did.

You have a big problem with players over-tipping?

Anyone know what Koon's angle was on this deal? Trying to get invited to an exclusive private game or something?

Oh yeah? Is that what it was? A good old HU match with Bilzarian? Almost a "Robin Hood" type of thing? That's what you're saying?

Or maybe he *gasp* isn't a card cheat? Must be a pretty dark life you have going through every moment of it looking for an angle, or wondering what someone else's angle is.

Shane is correct, the severity of the incident, and how surprising and/or newsworthy it is don't really correlate. The big cheating reveal may well have been a bit underwhelming after the hype BP gave it, but when you break it down what it is is a collection of individuals in an environment where there is a specific set of rules that everyone follows, only these individuals rather than adhere to the rules as others are doing have maliciously broken them in order to gain an advantage they otherwise should not have.

No matter how serious you think ghosting/MA;ing is as a topic, no matter how much bitterness you have for the victims or empathy you have for the culprits and no matter how relevant you consider the story, it's black and white cheating by definition.

Telling people they are naive for being surprised or outraged is always sad for me to read, I certainly wasn't that surprised by the revelation and wasn't particularly outraged either, but ive been in gambling my whole life and am a bit cynical, if your reaction to this story was you were outraged then i'm pleased to hear it, because you should be outraged really.

What I'm saying is... if 30 runners play in a $100k high roller event, and Bill Perkins and Jungleman are in - adding a few more that are in Bill Perkins' home game that are pissed off... Perhaps a casino says "Hey Dan C, we are a tight group, and you aren't welcome in this tournament."

Definitely could happen.

Yes ghosting on the FTs has become out of control. A number of people have claimed some of the stables in Brazil state you have to have remote viewing software to allow someone else to take over. Very hard to stop.

Holy **** poker is boring.

yes it is. On every final table of literally every bigger mtt, and iam not talking about your 1$ bounty hunters, there is ghosting going on. I promise you, every single Scoop FT this month had a player helping or telling someone on the final table what to do. A loooooooooot of people are staked or sell % of the scoop mtts, and when they really run deep, backers/stables always will demand to taker over. And even if they didnt sell anything, its still common to skype or smt like that on the final 2-3 tables.

Ghosting is as old as the poker scene. I remeber watching a strategy video like 10 years ago on pokerstrategy.com, where 2 players who shared $ were playing the cirque circus dude, forgot hisname, on 500/1000k$ on FTP and they were discussing hands and how to play. Literally in the strategy video, which was live recorded.

In this case jungle took it prob over the top, but tbh cant blame him, and the fact that bilzerian was involed, makes it even much much sweeter.

His angle was to get into heaven for being a good person, then once he's in start scamming the other angels.

LOLZ. Hueeey coming out of retirement and delivering the goods.

You only have one more post this year. make it count.

that's a logical and well written post . But I don't look at this the same way you and Shane do. I have a lower expectation of ethical behavior in poker. but thats just me.

How many have played in a cash game with a fun juicy player spewing off buyins, lucid at the time but getting more tipsy with each beer spewing off more and more. Would you talk him into leaving or sit there waiting your turn to stack him?

From a moral standpoint is that better, worse or same as ghosting on a poker app?

"tbh can't blame him"? So in your mind, if a bunch of guys want to have a private game among themselves, if some entitled d-bag deems the stakes are high enough, he should be allowed to crash it if he likes, just by dint of the fact that they made more money than he has at pursuits outside of poker huh? Nice.

Successful business men, no matter where they are, and no matter how they set things up, should have to play against poker pros the whole time because those business men have more money than the poker players do, you're saying?

Hey, maybe you can extrapolate this viewpoint of yours into other areas of life as well? When a wealthy factory owner has a private dinner party, a bunch of scammy poker pros should just be allowed to come in and sit down at the table and start eating because he's richer than they are. Or how about this, when Bill Gates is buying Xmas presents for his family, he's gotta buy one for Jungleman too, because Jungleman has put 15 years of his life into getting good at cards and now he can't get action, and Gates is rich, amirite?

What a greasy low-class way of life for a greasy low-class bunch of people. It's like someone getting into studying sleight-of-hand and magic and aspiring to be a pickpocket.

Completely 100% different. The fun player has the full ability to decide to stay or go and who he plays against in your example. Any mistakes he makes are completely on him and as an adult if he gets loaded and blams off a bunch of buy-ins that's his look-out.

A more realistic analogy would be a group of fun players setting up a private home game specifically for themselves, in order to let players of lower abilities play at higher stakes with each other with the EXPRESS PURPOSE OF NOT HAVING PRO'S IN THE GAME and Jungle hiding in a car outside monitoring his accomplices cards through a small camera and telling him how to play his hand. All set-up in advance, with all the terms and % of the cut worked out, all the tech procured and tested.

Read again. the fun player is drunk . now what do you do?

Im speaking more of morals, than ethics.

edit. not fall out of the chair cant talk drunk. but obviously lit up.

haha shane crushed it


also, im not such a difficult guy and will settle for less, so if any top 8 poker hero can ghost me on 50nl please pm me. im pretty sure some of my opponents have done it or have thought about it so 100% okay

How do you reckon he defrauded people? His charges were related to insider trading for failing to make required Schedule 13(d) disclosures on hostile takeover attempts.

Great comment by shane!

Intresting to see if Dnegs gonna ghost Dan during tha galfond challenge. I mean, its a dog eat dog world out there....

you are looking at the wrong culprit here imo, the fact that a really good player wants to play with bad players and will jump through alot of legal and ethical hoops are one thing but the REAL CULPRIT is the one of the glorious businessmen you rant about actually decided to put a pro in his stead in order to win money from his own friends. What is there really to take from this?

GET BETTER FRIENDS. The true scumbag is the one ripping his friends off, not the ****ing muscles.

oh wait, that is what businessmen do to each other all day long, but a pokerplayer wanting to play poker, that is DEATH!


The real villain is the one "hiring" him.

Well, as someone who has gotten totally lit while playing cards a bunch of times, that's my problem and I expect other poker players to do whatever they can to get my stack, probably up to and including buying me a beer if they're having one. Why yes, I'd LOVE a beer please. I'd draw the line at something like goading me into doing shots when I clearly didn't want them, or letting me play if I was slurring and incoherent.

But here's the thing. Drinking and cards are fun, and I was completely aware of of this variable that would hurt my ability, ie alcohol, going in. And I was 100% responsible for controlling the variable that was altering my chances in the game, (how many beers do I have) and how much I let that variable ruin my game and finances.

In your example however, I'm completely A: Unaware that there are variables costing me many BB/100 because I'm being ghosted and B: Completely unable to control the variable ie how many people are ghosting me.

I just assumed that we all already knew and accepted the fact that the business man was a scumbag and didn't have to even discuss that. Thanks for pointing that out, as if it wasn't just a given.

What is there to take from this? Why did you even need to say that? Isn't that the equivalent of of an argument about a mugger and his accomplice who stands at the end of the alley keeping lookout?

I'm here wondering why everyone doesn't immediately brand the lookout as a criminal, and your response is "The real villain is the one beating up the people." Ah....yeah......we already know that. And your position on his lookout?

Oh, and this guy would be acting as a lookout for muggers as his daily job too presumably if we are to accept the contention in this thread that it's ubiquitous.