Listening to this thread is like being a fly on the wall of an asylum for paranoid schizophrenics where the inmates haven't taken their meds for a couple weeks.

paging nurse ratchet

Yeah, cause we all KNOW that a major ipoker site wouldn't do anything shady (*cough* UB *cough*). Maybe you can get us a response on this with your 14k posts, does that make a difference to FT's reps (Oh right, they seem to be MIA).

Edit: Your previous posts prove to be interesting reading too, here's one of them:

OP, please post the 5 hands. Let us know how well FTP is doing their jobs.

I'm one of the old jaded ones who always assume the OP is guilty when a thread like this pops up. It comes from experience. They always are guilty. But you were different in that you were more respectful and I believe you really did just make a mistake. I've been playing on FTP since they opened, never transfer, never let anyone play on my PC and always try to win. And I'm not what you'd call a newbie 2p2 poster.

Although I always believe the OP is guilty until proved innocent if it comes far enough to create a new account and post about it on 2p2, I am still a bit nervous about playing on FTP. I'm concerned that they might overreact, ban people when a warning would be more appropriate, and ban people with little or no evidence. They don't reveal their methods, which I can understand, but they also don't reveal the evidence used to come to conclusions, provide little customer support, and provide no avenue for appeals in case FTP does actually make a mistake. This all has me a little bit worried. Although I like playing on FTP and am reticent to move to Stars, I'll admit the thought has crossed my mind.
...


From this thread: Full Tilt closed account - Boycott FTP
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...=#post20808273

And recently you just stop by itt to defend FT or troll other's posts (which you seem to do a lot anyway). Odd.

Might want to take some lithium like the rest of us.

Edit2: Sorry to Palimax and the rest for this little divergence.

Yup. Complete paranoid delusions about the 47 Two Plus Two forum members who had fraudulent transactions from PMI, all of whom used Full Tilt Poker, and many of whom who had fraudulent transactions matching actual Full Tilt deposits, and some of whom who had bank accounts solely for Full Tilt Poker transactions.

Where's FTPSean and how long until "soon?"

I'm not Sean, but I did want to drop in here to say that "soon" is hopefully today. We definitely aren't ignoring anything, but because of the sensitivity of the issue the people looking into it needed to be sure of what is said before saying it.

Sorry for the delay.

hey ftpdoug, can u plz respond to my PM about ID verification?

there is a thread about it on NVG...http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...-tilt-1017916/

its about ftp customer service not responding to their ID verification emails and suspending the account forever

Nice move, hijack and important thread like this with a completely unrelated problem just because you saw that one of the reps posted here... ffs.

i dont nec agree this is the case.

Are you kidding?? What does I.D. verification have to do with PMI double charging FT players?

I think you were sort of on the right track with the "FTP needs the money" thing.

ns if youve been following hte id verification threads, but the MO thus far has been:

1. Someone requests a wd
2. FTP emails them and asks for id.
3. They dont hear anything from FTP for months.
4. Sometimes, if they make an issue of it on the forums, FTP sean helps them out. Otherwise, ftp doesnt respond to their emails or the information they sent.

kind of a similar MO to pmi. Not addressing the problem until someone becomes a squeaky wheel.

I think I speak for the majority ITT when I say we are anxiously awaiting your response.

if FTP isnt guilty of anything then they should be able to just come out and say that. The fact that they have to take the time to find the best way to word things shows they are guilty of something.

Yeah I'm a reactionary idiot. I cancelled the dispute and emailed FT. Thank you.

I'd say almost impossible. First of all, poker transactions aren't recurring, and it's not just a "bit" that is set, it's a bunch of ancillary information.

I did credit card transactions for a startup I was helping with the last few years, and many of the transactions were recurring. But the actual payment processor I worked with had different data entry fields and reports for recurring vs. one time transactions, and there are controls to make sure you don't accidentally enter one in the wrong screen.

For example, a recurring transaction has to have the date of recurrence, how long between recurrences, total number of recurring transactions, etc. And it is entered as a delayed transaction that doesn't provide an immediate completion code.

Now obviously PMI probably uses a different software system they used/licensed, so I can't say it's not a possibility with their system. But I'd bet it's extremely unlikely, given the data checking/management requirements needed to do high volumes of transactions.

From all the descriptions here, the most likely answer is that the owners of PMI are using player's account info to try to skim money from their accounts, and are suddenly "finding the mistake" only if caught, and refunding to the squeaky wheels in order to keep their scheme going with the unaware.

Which hopefully, thanks to Palimax's efforts, there will be fewer of each day.

Bah, we'd likely do the same thing...

Thanks for the update.

Full Tilt is kidding itself if it says it has no liability. It's a clearly established principle of law that Full Tilt is liable for the acts of it's agents and PMI clearly fall into that category. The problem is finding someone with the time and means to bring a tort action for damages and finding the appropriate court of competent jurisdiction.

Best bet would be if enough players filed complaints with the Alderney Gambling Control Commission, which licenses Full Tilt. They could bring enough pressure to force Full Tilt to get off their lazy asses and do something about the problem.

I know from personal experience, when Full Tilt tried to get out of paying me a $100 deposit bonus, that merely mentioning that I would file a formal complaint had the disputed $100 in my account in 30 minutes.

Oh, I agree. I'm just in favor of giving the benefit of the doubt.

Keep it up front so that the FT reps can find it to post today as they said they might.

Hi all,

Thanks for your patience.

As a follow up to my post on April 5th, I can confirm that we have successfully pinned down the source of the problem regarding a former banking provider of FTP.

One of our banking providers erroneously and incorrectly billed a batch of transactions that originated from July of 2010. The bank inadvertently submitted these payments to a processor known as PMI. However, PMI has never been authorized to handle FTP customers.

Our investigation has revealed that this error occurred due to technical issues with the bank. Our investigation has also shown no evidence that any of our customer's bank accounts were ever compromised. We were informed by the bank that only a small group of FTP transactions were incorrectly processed for PMI and that all transactions that were billed incorrectly were refunded. The bank has yet to provide a list of the affected transactions to FTP. If you have been incorrectly billed by the bank with the PMI descriptor and have not received a refund please let us know and we will investigate further.

We assure all of our customers that the personal information (i.e. credit cards, bank accounts, addresses, passwords, etc.) are secure.

We apologize to our customers who have been impacted by this banking error and for the inconvenience this has caused.

Sean

in after "it was just a glitch"

Hoo boy. Nobody was given a refund until they contacted PMI directly...NOT ONE PERSON.

Poop Meets Fan

Coming soon to a theater near you.

Other than being repeatedly charged, that is.

Except perhaps for the dozen or two (thousand perhaps) that haven't noticed and called PMI. But we don't really know because...
Fair warning, get an airline sickness bag ready before reading this part.
Sean, I suggest sending a mass email to all your customers telling them to examine their bank statements and contact both FTP and PMI if any of these charges are shown.

You will taking a huge hit in your already thin customer service department, but it's the right thing to do.

In after BS FTP response

Edit: Should add that PMI and/or the bank may be BSing FTP and their investigation....lots of B.S going around from everyone in IMO intentionally or not

Ohhhhh it was a mistake, you accidently stole thousands of dollars, if it was a mistake its OK!

Yeah, PMI happened to me in February, March and April, and I haven't received ANY funds that match the funds that were deducted. Please, try again.