Bump it back up front so the unaware will see it. STICKY!!!

The story FTP is currently telling is that their bank, some large bank that they'll keep secret, is at fault, erroneously sending some portion of bad July 2010 transactions for re-processing through the wrong company.

In this case, PMI is just a payment processor doing [Large Bank]'s bidding.

Sites need to alert players and make them whole when something like this occurs, shady processors or not. Its not acceptable to just tell players its a cost of doing business.

I agree, we want regulation.

How do we reconcile this with players able to reach PMI before FT found this being immediately told its an error and getting a refund? Wouldnt PMI have though it to be a legit deposit at that point? Or could you call any processor and stop/reverse payment?

Still waiting...

And no, I don't expect to get the bank's name. But #2 and #3...

Oh, and #4: Where did the money go?

1- To "PMI" (Very likely, if they are refunding the money, they must still have it)

2 - The "unnamed bank" (We'd need to know more about their relationship with "PMI" to ascertain this imo)

3 - Full Tilt (Denied by FTP reps, but that IS where legitimately deposited money ends up)

Thoughts?

At this point in the game expecting 2 and 3 from FT is probably wishful thinking imo.

Ok... I'd read this post before and the significance didn't really hit me until just now, this may just be the smoking gun as to how bad things REALLY are at FT:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...-27th-1020170/

Cliff's: OP in that thread has been waiting 2 months for a withdrawal and sent bank statement requested by FT due to the ever popular 'processor issue' and now FT has sent him an e-mail that basically says that they just don't know if the funds were taken from his bank account or not and they won't cash him out and his money will be locked up until a random date in June... WTF???

Things are BAD at FT with them admitting something like this and if you don't think so you have your head in the sand.

link bad.

Don't know why but happened twice... correct link.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...-27th-1020170/

My bank account was withdrawn but I had closed the account. FTP withdrew the money from my ftp bankroll and then closed my quick deposit options. This created a debacle for me as I needed to deposit some money.

But they ( ftp ) still with drew the money from my account even it being 6 mo AFTER I DEPOSITED!

So I discovered it because In march I tried.to deposit with my new bank acct and it was declined. I emailed ftp asking wtf and their reply was that it was declined because this 3rd party went ahead and tried to withdraw money from my closed bank account for a deposit I made six months earlier but failed obv so they locked my deposit options. I was perturbed so I asked ftp about it. This is the response I got on march 15:

On Mar 15, 2011 8:24 AM, "Full Tilt Poker" <cashier@fulltiltpoker.com> wrote:
>
> , you received this email because you are a player at Full*Tilt*Poker.
> To be removed please reply to cashier@fulltiltpoker.com
>
> Dear ,
>
> Your 'Quick Deposit' transaction outlined below was successfully added to your Full Tilt Poker account.
>
> However due to third party processor issues there has been a delay in debiting your bank account for this transaction.
>
> TRANSACTION DETAILS
> DATE
> TIME (ET)
> TRANSFER REF
> TRANSFER AMOUNT
> 18 Nov 2010
> 21:47:00
> 06C47127
> $300.00
>

> Your bank account ending in 6788 will be debited within 1-3 business days - please ensure that the appropriate funds are available.
>
> Once debited, the transaction above will appear on your bank statement with the descriptor; "FTPayments".
>
> If there are any additional transactions to be processed we will contact you in advance by email with the transaction details.
>
> We apologize sincerely for any inconvenience - rest assured we are working as a priority to resolve these issues.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Full Tilt Poker Support
>
> To make sure you continue to receive our emails optimally and in your inbox (not sent to bulk or junk folders), please*add cashier@fulltiltpoker.com to your address book or safe sender list. Thank You.
> Kings House, The Grange, St Peter Port, Guernsey, GY1 2QJ

So I'm like WAT!!?? But they removed my deposit options AND DEDUCTED the money from my ftp account ... I haven't read the entire thread but it seemed fishy to me at the time and was considering starting a post at the time.

Has anybody had a similar situation as me where you closed your bank acct before the spam withdrawal only to have ftp close your deposit options and deduct the $ from your account? Thx for the help

btw - I will email FTP and try to get this refunded. FWIW I have been spending all my energy trying to get money into my account to cover coaching fees by asking other 2p2 friends - moving money around and sending checks out so ppl could just do a player to player transfer. I just got the money in my account so now I can focus on trying to figure out why this **** happened in the first place! and get my 300 bucks back!!!

Good luck with your issue, but it's unrelated to the problem at hand here.

Is it possible PMI is related to all of the sites being shut down in the US today? Maybe someone reported PMI to a government agency and they let the FBI loose?

There's about 0% chance that the PMI issues are related to the DOJ's actions.

Expect about 0 updates to this thread while the poker world is at code-red.

necessary bump.

As an aside, FT Sean/Doug have been receptive to my PMs and I do think we need to state that they have been helpful (as of late). They are simply the messengers at this point, and we need to be respectful.

With that said, we do expect answers....

Speak for yourself. My expectations from ftp are pretty close to 0.

now i feel bad cuz in one of my rants with a support rep email I said to him to quit his support job cuz FTP was going to be shut down soon if they kept doing shady business with PMI processors...

lol i think this issue has paled into insignificance somewhat

Hey! Good thinking!! The FBI must have been reading this thread and decided to take you up on that.

lmao

Yeah this is never ever gunna get resolved now.

Nope. They will scoff at the loss of 50 American players when they are looking at losing their 2 owners, and ALL American business. Damnit if FT had just been more proactive in Feb and March we would have had our goddamn answers. Now we won't ever get anything....

That was pretty self centered.

FT has been dealing with the effects of the UEIGEA for some time, and it's almost certainly the cause of the PMI problem. Despite a reasonable case that what they and we were doing is entirely legal, legitimate banks were intimidated into not allowing transfers.

Now FT is facing indictments for trying to work around that, to the benefit of itself, and you. People there are facing prison time, or losing their jobs, a business they built has taken a terrific blow, and may be facing extortionate penalties.

I don't think a couple odd $200 transfers amount to a hill of beans anymore. Your pain is a fraction of what the principles at FT are going to feel if this court action goes against them.

As I've said previously on this thread, I would have no tolerance for FT's response to this matter were they a licensed entity with clear legal authority in the U.S. But they were your partner in allowing you to pursue your desire to play online despite the wrong headed U.S. justice department. I'd cut them a lot of slack for sticking it out to the point where they now face indictment, and will now be fighting for all of our rights to play online.

Thats far more important than how well their customer service rates.

I don't agree:

• There's at least some chance that Tilt will get back up and running for US players (the DOJ could get pressured to drop it, their case could fall apart, whatever), and if that happens people need to know about this issue and how Full Tilt handled it.
• There are almost certainly many more people who've been affected (i.e., stolen from) who don't know about it, and it's at least reasonably likely that Tilt will not be aggressive in making sure those people get their money back, so they need to be made aware.
• For all we know it could happen again in April.

There are many thousands of dollars involved, and this theft is happening right now. Obviously the possible shutdown of the big three and maybe even seizure of all player accounts is more widespread, but that's not happening yet and more importantly, there's nothing players can do about it right now. But they can check their bank accounts to see whether they've been stolen from, and try to get their money back if they have been.

By the way, I filed a dispute with my bank the other day, 2 of the PMI transactions were found to be fraudulent and I am being reimbursed, 1 of them was 3 months ago so thats a no go. Bottom line, contact your bank ASAP and you should get your money back.

Funny, this whole scam seems really similar to some of the scams Tzvetkoff / his associates were involved in.