Its hard not think you're being deliberately obtuse.

Its not the power of the word 'racist', you can use that as much as you like. You're using it in a way that will be misunderstood and causes trouble. If you believe that only actions matter then just be clear you're describing the actions and that's fine.

You aren't helping. Again. It is starting to look like a pattern. I am getting tired of having to ask you to stop. I know it is hard to stop and that you have good intentions, but nothing good has come from your previous attempts. This time most likely won't be any different.

Please everyone note: I complained about a behavior. I complained that he has exhibited the behavior more than once. It sounded harsh enough, I think. Possibly several times more than if I had called him "an unhelpful person." That would have made him feel the need to defend his character.

I can easily attack his behaviors in a way that gives him an out; makes him reconsider. Perhaps I won't witness the change.

(I did break the rule of not publicly doing so, but this was such a perfect example that doing it in public is worth the risk of him thinking bad stuff about me instead of focussing on his behavior)

Same problem as calling a kid bad or smart. Neither ends well.

Its about concepts. In this case you are missing out intentions.

possibly this fiasco.

It certainly the case that the post and the poster being called clearly racist helped kick this thing off in a major way. If they had called the post clearly racist instead then the response would have been different. who knows but it sure didn't help and it continued.

oh and possibly what DS said as well. Depends what he actually said but it definitely caused a problem.

Well, ditto.

you're point out the wrong pattern. Nothing wrong with showing the inconsistency of using competing definitions. Sadly, you may be right that it doesn't help.

Chez: I figured you meant this 'fiasco'. So, to be clear, I don't find this outcome particularly problematic.

It doesn't bother me that someone who writes racist and other insensitive stuff is gone from this forum. Especially someone who clearly lacked the ability to do honest self-evaluation or the ability to handle criticism as an adult.

I've been pretty skeptical that groundbreaking mathematics research was being done here. I'm sure his homework help was valuable but I think there are many resources for that available to people.

bruce is perfectly free to speak for himself.

you and i and others tried to speak for him and i wouldn't be hiring us as a legal team after the results.

you, for instance, speak for yourself just fine. you take insults, fair or unfair, without behaving like a circus clown. why should others not meet the same standards you hold for yourself?

there is no fiasco. there was no witch hunt. there was no harm that wasn't self-inflicted. is it really possible that one's job prospects might be harmed because an anonymous poster on an internet message board named GOOFYBALLER called someone a racist?

I'd like to see that interview. "Um, Mr Z. your understanding of probability and ability to communicate make you the perfect man for this position. There's just one problem, you see. On that internet message board, 2+2, it seems GOOFYBALLER has identified you as a racist. Also, there's the matter of ANAIS, and TROLLY that confirm this allegation. I believe KILLA weighed in as well. ASIANTHENIT, someone we think is an expert in the field, is on the fence, and we are quite relieved to see that BRIANTHEMICK is on your side.

Still, we have the problem of MR.WOOKIE adamantly insisting you are racist. And despite the objections we hear from SPANKTHEBADWOOKIE, we can't simply ignore MR.WOOKIE who appears in orange lettering, now can we? So I'm sorry Mr. Z, we'll have to pass on your expertise at this time. Chico and Pablo are waiting in the next room. They don't speak English very well, but they work cheap. Nothing personal, in the end. You understand, right?"

oh well if you just mean outcomes you don't like then carry on.

I've no doubt conflating concepts and having fun is working well for you.

I'll leave that in just for kicks.

This whole Bruce thing is getting old. What we need is to find another racist mod, to liven this place up.

Lol, that's the definition you're using too. That's what everybody uses to decide if something is problematic.

Anyway, I explained why I'm ok with it. Have you? I guess it's just that racism is fine if someone is good at math and you use your soul-peering power to decide they don't really mean it.






I stand by the homework part.

I could easily be wrong about the groundbreaking mathematics but I asked multiple times for some of Bruce's greatest hits and never got anything.

Mat,

What if someone's online persona is directly connected to their known identity within a community in which they are a professional?

We are all different. I cant discard everybody who meets different standards to me and wouldn't want to be discarded when my standards fall short.

I'd love Bruce to speak for himself in a reasonable fashion on both sides. Sadly I have very limited hope of that happening, I haven't given up but I can't force Bruce or DS to get the ball rolling and even then I'm not confident

I actually disagree. There is harm and it isn't entirely self-inflicted

There is also harm to some areas of 2+2 and some people who come here and that wasn't self-inflicted.

Job prospects are not the issue. It's weird how people denigrate sites such as 2+2. Someone puts in a big chunk of time for years building up relationships with many people along the way and its somehow not considered real.

Out of curiosity, does my way seem snuggly? I mean my normal way, in which I mock beliefs and values and ideas, rather than the person.

Do you think that my aping of Fly was helpful?!? Do you think for a second that he is rethinking his behavior? Do you think for a second that he thinks anything more than that I was being an ******* and dead-on proof that he is behaving correctly?

I will ask chezlaw to pipe in. He thought/thinks that I was being a completely horrible person. I will be disappointed if he doesn't think so.

**** me. You are doing at yourself. You have noticed that your opinions and methods and knowledge base has changed over time, right?

Given that you (assuming that you are as easily annoyed by others as you present on 2+2) have some special understanding of intolerant feelings, and yet have arrived at the conclusion that racial intolerance is wrong, should have some decent insights that would be very welcome and very helpful.

then be careful what you say.

as someone who posts as himself, i have no sympathy for those who feel anonymity is more important than what they spew out.

Just curious, did you know some people have used the forum y'all run to admit to addiction problems and seek help? The anonymity provided here may very well have contributed to their honesty and efforts, thereby saving their lives.

I don't think that's what mat is talking about.

I know. But there's more than one side to anonymity.

I have seen some just God-awful doctors since July. Like seriously, if you ever want competent care do not go to an educational facility beginning in July. Just terrible first years trying to kill everyone.

Anyway, point being - making it through med school, then residency, then fellowship is not an easy task. It is not a task made easier by affirmative action because once you're in the program you have to sink or swim on your own merit.

i understand that, but i was more referring to someone being labeled and attacked as a racist/misogynist/****** by other forum members/moderators for a view such as supporting ron paul for wanting to end the racist war on drugs or audit the federal reserve. the attackers who, in general, cowardly hide behind their anonymity while attacking a non-anonymous person.

i was addressing chezlaw's reference to one actually caring about being attacked by these anonymous posters, despite not caring for their personal opinion on account of them being an awful person / idiot / troll / hypocrite.

correct. i understand that most people want to be anonymous and I understand why and support that.

i'm talking about people who are "sort of anonymous" and after posting something controversial and taking heat want us to protect their anonymity.

Wow.

i really don't see that happening. for instance, i think in today's climate restaurant owners should be allowed to put up a sign that says whites only.

but the reason i think that should be allowed is because i think those restaurants would go out of business in a matter of days. it's not because i think it's really okay, morally, to discriminate based on race.

i'm sure a lot of people will be happy to tell me i'm wrong, but they are not very likely to call me racist.

and i find it inconceivable that anyone has been called racist, here, for wanting to "end the war on drugs."

We don't know who had more obstacles in their way. Black people are poorer than white people. Poor people have a much harder path to college/med school than wealthier people.

i don't know what "wow" means. i assume it's you expressing dissatisfaction with my reply, but i can't be sure.