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Old 11-07-2010, 11:34 PM   #1126
Grim Horse
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

They also win more, and get to keep more of it. It is a much better game for the players rake wise. 2/4 just bleeds them to death. I am surprised that anyone here wouldn't see that. The room is doing them a favor by spreading it as the lowest stake.
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Old 11-07-2010, 11:44 PM   #1127
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by poker327 View Post
The last aggressor rule has never been a problem in the eight years I have played live in a multiway pot. Normally people will show their hand if it is better than the last aggressor's without arguing over whose turn it is next. I can't remember anytime where there was an argument. Last night when the player was told he had to show first, he was very upset that he had to do that and I think will lead to more hostility.

Although reading Robert's Rules of Poker, you are right. "8. If everyone checks (or is all-in) on the final betting round, the player who acted first is the first to show the hand." Just a warning though, many of the players will be used to the Borgata rule of last aggressor (the Taj uses the first to act rule).
I believe that all the rules that in our room are in the best interest of the game, the players, and the company. We have put a lot thought into each rule, but I appreciate all the feedback.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:06 AM   #1128
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by TcT1 View Post
Ari, you should address the parking lot situation. Way too much distance to cover... no staff in lobby at night and no security and a long walk thru no man's land of handicap empties to get to your main lots. This may not be a "poker room" issue... but it should be addressed immediately. Player safety should be priority, which I've heard has not been at parx.
IMHO - this is a serious downside. I dropped by the other day with my wife to make a bet on Zenyatta (sadness she didn't win) and even she commented about me leaving late at night and having to make the walk through "no mans land".

Last Thursday in the rain, it was just effin miserable getting to/from the building.

I am seriously considering borrowing my Mom's HCP mirror tag to use when parking.

I'm not sure there is a solution to the distance problem. But, lighting and security could be improved.... significantly!
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:13 AM   #1129
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

And in related news... once again add to me to list of folks who do NOT want to see 2-4 (or 3-6) game spread. Major kudos to Ari & co. for taking the heat and daring to be different (and, IMHO... better).

Let's grow the 4-8, 8-16 & 15-30 limit games. No disrespect to anyone.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:15 AM   #1130
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by spresso81 View Post

The players in the POKER ROOM should get free beer, wine, etc...
FYP
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:27 AM   #1131
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by IFSATG View Post
And in related news... once again add to me to list of folks who do NOT want to see 2-4 (or 3-6) game spread. Major kudos to Ari & co. for taking the heat and daring to be different (and, IMHO... better).

Let's grow the 4-8, 8-16 & 15-30 limit games. No disrespect to anyone.
30-60, 60-120, 100-200, 200-400, 500-1000, etc.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:29 AM   #1132
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by Coasterbrad View Post
I don't think they would, but if they do start a BBJ and have a $5+$1 rake, that would really suck. Just wanted to see if anyone else heard anyone mention this, and what the rake structure would be if it were implemented.
Based on my conversations with Ari, I would be very surprised to see a BBJ at Parx. While he never spoke directly with me about a BBJ, after every discussion with Ari about poker, the room and his philosophies... I come away feeling that he is looking at making this place unique and special to poker players.

To that end, Parx does not need the lure of a BBJ. There is no reason to penalize the poker players to fund a marketing campaign. I think that is well understood by management.

In a few months, this room should realize its full potential. Someone mentioned "Borgata West"... I actually think it could be better than that.
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Old 11-08-2010, 01:29 AM   #1133
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

They DEFINITELY need to institute "NO FLOP, NO DROP." The rake on nl games is already 25% higher than Atlantic City. All the players are going to play much less if the rake is tooo high. It's bad business. Higher quantity of play X slightly less rake is more profitable for the house in the long run. $125 an hour is flying off everyone 1-2NL table. It's ridiculous. How many hands per hour dont have a flop? This is the least they can do. You definitely need to institute "NO FLOP, NO DROP."
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Old 11-08-2010, 01:34 AM   #1134
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Amen to that, IFSATG! I don't think it needs a 2/4 game either. Ari is right - the players can't beat the rake. Plus, the dealers don't get much in the way of tips and the house doesn't make money. It's a lose-lose game for everyone.

As for the post made by poconopike555: Who calls capped betting on all 4 rounds with no pair?? Especially on a board with a flush and/or straight possibility? Whoever it is wil end up losing all of his/her money regardless of the stakes.

4/8 is a much better game for everyone - players, dealers, and house alike.

As for the parking issue - I agree, more security would be nice. So would not having to walk in the rain/snow/whatever. Maybe the long term expansion plans at Parx include a parking garage? Perhaps when the hotel gets built? I dunno - this is purely speculation on my part.

As for the BBJ issue: As someone who has collected quite a few times from room shares at Bally's, and the first "all 4 casinos" share in AC, as well as a table share at Harrah's last year - I'm still down a couple of thousand from what I very conservatively figure I've paid out in BBJ money. Others I know are down even more. I'm all in favor of Parx not having one!!

Lee
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Old 11-08-2010, 02:26 AM   #1135
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by Lovesantiques View Post
Amen to that, IFSATG! I don't think it needs a 2/4 game either. Ari is right - the players can't beat the rake. Plus, the dealers don't get much in the way of tips and the house doesn't make money. It's a lose-lose game for everyone.

As for the post made by poconopike555: Who calls capped betting on all 4 rounds with no pair?? Especially on a board with a flush and/or straight possibility? Whoever it is wil end up losing all of his/her money regardless of the stakes.

4/8 is a much better game for everyone - players, dealers, and house alike.

As for the parking issue - I agree, more security would be nice. So would not having to walk in the rain/snow/whatever. Maybe the long term expansion plans at Parx include a parking garage? Perhaps when the hotel gets built? I dunno - this is purely speculation on my part.

As for the BBJ issue: As someone who has collected quite a few times from room shares at Bally's, and the first "all 4 casinos" share in AC, as well as a table share at Harrah's last year - I'm still down a couple of thousand from what I very conservatively figure I've paid out in BBJ money. Others I know are down even more. I'm all in favor of Parx not having one!!

Lee
You've been involved in all those BBJ and still think you are down money? How many hands do you get an hour playing low-limit nlhe? Maybe 20? You play that much live nlhe and you still have your sanity?
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Old 11-08-2010, 02:57 AM   #1136
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Parkettes: (These photos are public.)




Very good Daniel son. You got permission to take pics. In doing so, you successfully avoided any unnecessary drama in this sue-happy society.Well done!!

Is it me, or are there alot of large noses in these close-ups? ....Meh

Any live updates on sunday night into monday morning play please?
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:46 AM   #1137
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Is the 2/5 raked? If so.....and there are 3 limpers to me in the CO....I make it $35.....everyone folds.....what's the rake?
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:29 AM   #1138
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Is the 2/5 raked? If so.....and there are 3 limpers to me in the CO....I make it $35.....everyone folds.....what's the rake?
$2. Yw
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:47 AM   #1139
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by IFSATG View Post
Based on my conversations with Ari, I would be very surprised to see a BBJ at Parx. While he never spoke directly with me about a BBJ, after every discussion with Ari about poker, the room and his philosophies... I come away feeling that he is looking at making this place unique and special to poker players.

To that end, Parx does not need the lure of a BBJ. There is no reason to penalize the poker players to fund a marketing campaign. I think that is well understood by management.

In a few months, this room should realize its full potential. Someone mentioned "Borgata West"... I actually think it could be better than that.

I agree with this. That is why I was a little surprised when one of the floor started talking about having one.
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Old 11-08-2010, 09:28 AM   #1140
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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A couple things I want to say, as for the dealers most of them were new, and I understand they will get a lot better overtime. But Ari did a great job in finding great dealers as well IMHO. I dont remember the kids name, I think its bobby but i am not sure on that, had to be the faster dealer I have seen in a good while. He ran the game with great precision and had a great personality actually made me laugh a few times, and that's hard to do ROFL.
Yep - he is a great dealer. I thought he dealt at the Borgata before, because he dealt as fast as I had a dealer at the Borgata. He said he knows him, and that other kid is even faster than him.
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Old 11-08-2010, 09:33 AM   #1141
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by JONATHANM View Post
Very good Daniel son. You got permission to take pics. In doing so, you successfully avoided any unnecessary drama in this sue-happy society.Well done!!

Is it me, or are there alot of large noses in these close-ups? ....Meh

Any live updates on sunday night into monday morning play please?
2 thoughts on your point.
1. I never want to play at a table with you as you obviously will notice the slightest blink, hand twitch, breathing pattern change

2. if you look hard enough someone will always find something to complain about...no matter how irrelevant. Look at the big picture here.
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Old 11-08-2010, 10:33 AM   #1142
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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You've been involved in all those BBJ and still think you are down money? How many hands do you get an hour playing low-limit nlhe? Maybe 20? You play that much live nlhe and you still have your sanity?
Without spelling out the specific numbers - even if I'm only winning an average of 2-3 qualifying pots an hour then yes, I'm still down. I did the arithmetic. Those dollars add up! We generally don't see it/think about it because it's only a dollar per pot won, and thus tends to be invisible. But they do add up.

As for my sanity - you are making the assumption that I had any to begin with. Thank you for the compliment!

Lee
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Old 11-08-2010, 11:20 AM   #1143
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

So I've been a few times and spent a decent amount of hours in the room. Just wanted to add my thoughts, I'll try not to be redundant.

Overall the room is a great. Poker players love to *****, and complaints always ring louder than compliments.

The floor staff is awesome, they are knowledgeable, evenhanded, and thoughtful. Nearly all of them "get it". This is the key factor in making a room successful, imo. The leadership at Parx genuinely consider the players as stakeholders in the equation, and consider our interests in their decision making. Thats a wonderful thing.

The dealers on average are way better than I expected for a new room. About half have experience from other casinos, and they are the good ones, I've not seen a single terrible dealer I know from another room. The new dealers are very good for never having dealt poker before. With a few exceptions, they are well trained, and Fast. There were several new ones I didn't know that I asked where they'd dealt before and they were brand new! Some of the newbs are very nervous and that slows them down, but that is starting to wear off already, by next month I doubt it will be a factor.

The games are ok to good. I've seen some really fishy soft play, I've also been at tables that were all solid players and very tight. Pretty standard, IMO.

The variety of games is there if the players want it to be. Every floor person and shift manager I've talked to has told me they want to spread as many different games as possible, if there is interest, and its approved by PA Gaming they will spread it. They held a table for PLO when it had 7 on the list and there were 10 on the list for 1-2 but already 15 1-2 tables running. How many other rooms would do that? Most places would just open a 16th 1-2 table. This will only get better when they expand the room.

As an aside, anyone thats interested in PLO, pm me your number and I'll text you anytime I'm there and we are getting it going.

The only real issue I've seen, is the Rake. Everything else we are complaining about is just a nitpick. Ari, others have said it, I'll say it again. Please make it no flop no drop. Thanks!
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Old 11-08-2010, 11:22 AM   #1144
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Someone did an analysis of the BBJ "odds" and after taking into consideration that there are 24 hours/day, 7days/week, X amount of tables, with Y amount of hands/table and considering the percentage of time that you are at any given table, on any given day, as a percentage of the total possible hands that could qualify for the BBJ...

You're better off playing the lottery - odds wise That is, you'd get a better return on your portion of the BBJ drop.


But, let's not turn this thread into (yet another) BBJ debate. There is no BBJ at Parx and the overwhelming majority of "poker players" feel that is a good thing.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:07 PM   #1145
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

How about time at 2/5. Even at $6 per half hour ($5 is standard and let the house take the extra dollar instead of BBJ that is standard in lots of places including AC) is better than rake IMO...ofcourse tight players prefer rake.

Rake makes 2/5 less of an action game
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:11 PM   #1146
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

I believe the odds of hitting the BBJ aren't calculable because you can be "bet off" a potential BBJ hand. I'd much rather be playing with 9 players who can't stop talking about it than a player who can quote the odds in any given situation.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:23 PM   #1147
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by PokerSki13 View Post
How about time at 2/5. Even at $6 per half hour ($5 is standard and let the house take the extra dollar instead of BBJ that is standard in lots of places including AC) is better than rake IMO...ofcourse tight players prefer rake.

Rake makes 2/5 less of an action game
That's exactly right. Why do I even want to bother calling/making a $25 raise to get heads up action (unless I have an exceptionally strong hand) when I know $5 of the pot is going to the house? And the no-flop rake is really the killer. Let's say you're on the button and you get a few limpers. You have considerably less incentive to try to make a button raise with a marginal hand to steal the dead money when you know that $2 or $3 is going to the house. So you get less "steal" plays, which hurts the action.

Last edited by =VH= Fan; 11-08-2010 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:35 PM   #1148
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

I made it out there this weekend. I really liked the place and will definitely be visiting more often. Just thought I'd post my good, bad, and ugly. A lot of this has already been said, but here's my thoughts:


The Good
--------
1. Lots of action in $15-30 LHE
2. The tables are spaced perfectly. Lots of walking room between tables. No bumping into others getting to your seat.
3. Dealers were good considering it's a new room. (way better then other PA rooms when they first opened)
4. The waitresses!
5. The cashier was fast and efficient for my buy-in and cash out.
6. Chip runners seemed very attentive to people needing to re-buy. She was over at our table in a blink of the eye whenever the dealer hit the chip runner button.
7. I got a hat for getting a player's card
8. The speaker system is perfect. Some other posts were complaining it's not loud enough. I disagree! It was perfect - I could easily hear my name get called, but it wasn't ear piercingly loud like another room in PA (not mentioning any names...)


The Bad
-------
1. The tables are a little short. I think they are really 9 handed tables, but they are squeezing in 10 people. Makes no sense to me since there is plenty of room for larger tables.
2. The bathroom could use a cleaning. It looked to me like it hadn't been cleaned since the place opened.
3. The bathroom door swings in. For a germaphobe like me, I don't want to touch the handle of the door after washing my hands. Like others have said, get rid of the door. Or, make it swing out so I can kick the door open when my hands are clean.


The Ugly
--------
1. The parking lot. As others have said, it's a ridiculously long walk to the car. I was in the Donald Duck section... errr, wrong place, 4D. Way to far. I can see it being a scary walk after dark.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:42 PM   #1149
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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4. The waitresses!

3. The bathroom door swings in. For a germaphobe like me, I don't want to touch the handle of the door after washing my hands. Like others have said, get rid of the door. Or, make it swing out so I can kick the door open when my hands are clean.


The Ugly
--------
1. The parking lot. As others have said, it's a ridiculously long walk to the car. I was in the Donald Duck section... errr, wrong place, 4D. Way to far. I can see it being a scary walk after dark.
waitresses are young so adds to the appealing aspect I guess.

just use the towel u used to dry your hands with after washing to open the door and trash the towel.

i use a fake handicap plate on my rearview mirror to park closer.. unethical i know, but the truly handicapped wont mind will they? there is soo much space.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:50 PM   #1150
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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i use a fake handicap plate on my rearview mirror to park closer.. unethical i know, but the truly handicapped wont mind will they? there is soo much space.
That is one funniest things I have ever read!! I guess they would only mind if everybody had your fake plate - but then you would have to walk!!!
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