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Old 02-25-2011, 12:53 AM   #3626
jayski
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by pipes View Post
Are you referring to the 1st and 3rd base signals? Someone trying to infer collusion?

Haven't played it that much, but have never seen anything remotely resembling that.
I asked goldfinger, what he meant by his original comment, but got no response.?.?.

What did he mean, i figured he was hinting at Collusion???
I havn't seen anything either. I always watch for that, because it used to happen at TAJ in the 20-40 all the time between regulars.

J
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:37 AM   #3627
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Any other 2+2ers at the 1/2NL table this evening where the drunk guy got kicked out of the place after donating over $1200 to the table?
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Old 02-25-2011, 02:43 AM   #3628
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by pipes View Post
Are you referring to the 1st and 3rd base signals? Someone trying to infer collusion?

I have seen softplaying though in HU pots between certain people. Both were bad though and I assume no one has gotten on their case because of this.
I've seen a few questionable things in the 4 sessions I have played at parx.

Guys checking certain people at the table like you said HU. I've seen a LAG guy raise preflop with ATC and go heads up in 4-8LHE and on multiple hands offer to "check it down"...****er lost every time too..lol I don't think he was colluding. Twice I've seen him lose $400-500 stacks.

Saw another guy acting like Joe poker talking tourneys and gloating like mr. know it all. Folded his hand and ran over to his buddy who was sitting next to me and grabbed his cards in the middle of a hand. Got the attention of the floor manager, who called him out. Same guy tipped a dealer $25 on one pot in 4-8 Omaha, because he hit his river card. A bit over the top if you ask me.

Same night had a dealer cost me a good pot turning 4 cards on the flop. Got me on tilt and I didn't tip him the rest of the night.
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:29 AM   #3629
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by CoolhandDuke View Post
I've seen a few questionable things in the 4 sessions I have played at parx.

Guys checking certain people at the table like you said HU. I've seen a LAG guy raise preflop with ATC and go heads up in 4-8LHE and on multiple hands offer to "check it down"...****er lost every time too..lol I don't think he was colluding. Twice I've seen him lose $400-500 stacks.

Saw another guy acting like Joe poker talking tourneys and gloating like mr. know it all. Folded his hand and ran over to his buddy who was sitting next to me and grabbed his cards in the middle of a hand. Got the attention of the floor manager, who called him out. Same guy tipped a dealer $25 on one pot in 4-8 Omaha, because he hit his river card. A bit over the top if you ask me.

Same night had a dealer cost me a good pot turning 4 cards on the flop. Got me on tilt and I didn't tip him the rest of the night.
i soft play heads up against friends all the time. once there is no one else in the hand, i don't think it's wrong to "play nice" and not take more of each other's money if you don't want to.
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:13 AM   #3630
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by 85chickasaw View Post
i soft play heads up against friends all the time. once there is no one else in the hand, i don't think it's wrong to "play nice" and not take more of each other's money if you don't want to.
you are soooooo wrong here. The hands playout differently if two players soft play each other heads up. That is a form of collusion. Thijnk about it you have TPTK and your friend has TP second best kicker so you guys can over bet to get the "third" player (maybe he has a draw) out knowing that the turn and river will be checked down. There are many other examples of how this is collusion. Ofcourse hopefully palyer 3 has a set and felts both of you cheaters!
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:25 AM   #3631
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Why do friends play at the same table? I think its kinda dumb. Myself,I don't want to take my friends money....and vice-versa.
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:26 AM   #3632
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

If you soft play each other, that's eventually less money on the table to be won (assuming you both will rebuy if you get stacked).

EDIT to add: I agree with what Sam said. Whenever possible when at casinos, I play at tables other than my friends. The exception is when we're making a drinking game out of 2/4 - 4/8 LHE.
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:39 PM   #3633
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Does anyone know what's going on with the live play link:

http://i.parxcasino.com/gamereport.php

I keep getting the IE error page, wanted to check to see if there is something wrong with it? If so, anywhere else to check the live play?
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:58 PM   #3634
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by Cal Lightman View Post
Does anyone know what's going on with the live play link:

http://i.parxcasino.com/gamereport.php

I keep getting the IE error page, wanted to check to see if there is something wrong with it? If so, anywhere else to check the live play?
i think your link a bit off. try this:

http://www.parxcasino.com/gamereport/
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:07 PM   #3635
85chickasaw
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by PokerSki13 View Post
you are soooooo wrong here. The hands playout differently if two players soft play each other heads up. That is a form of collusion. Thijnk about it you have TPTK and your friend has TP second best kicker so you guys can over bet to get the "third" player (maybe he has a draw) out knowing that the turn and river will be checked down. There are many other examples of how this is collusion. Ofcourse hopefully palyer 3 has a set and felts both of you cheaters!
i'm only wrong when you throw in all those other assumptions. primarily the assumption that we are fast playing to get others out before getting heads up. we don't play any differently with other players in the hand. re-read my post. besides, that third player you are referring to continually pulls money off the table when he has a mediocre hand and sneaks money onto the table when he has a monster (see how making assumptions work )

but to the following point... because of this type of mentality (not wanting to take friend's money) i prefer to play at my own table without friends. any bluffs become useless if everyone folds but your friend if you don't try to felt each other.
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:10 PM   #3636
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapini View Post
If you soft play each other, that's eventually less money on the table to be won (assuming you both will rebuy if you get stacked).

EDIT to add: I agree with what Sam said. Whenever possible when at casinos, I play at tables other than my friends. The exception is when we're making a drinking game out of 2/4 - 4/8 LHE.
i totally agree with this point in tournaments. soft playing affects everyone greatly. could go either way in cash, but a solid point i think.
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:17 PM   #3637
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

When I'm at the table with a friend, I get extra joy out of stacking him.

For one, it's funny.

For two, it prevents the appearance of collusion. The appearance of collusion is almost as bad as the actual act itself. From a recreational player's point of view, nobody wants to sit in a game with a bunch of players that seem to all be on the same team. Even if there's nothing going on, it still looks and feels bad.
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:36 PM   #3638
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by cl0r0x70 View Post
When I'm at the table with a friend, I get extra joy out of stacking him.

For one, it's funny.

For two, it prevents the appearance of collusion. The appearance of collusion is almost as bad as the actual act itself. From a recreational player's point of view, nobody wants to sit in a game with a bunch of players that seem to all be on the same team. Even if there's nothing going on, it still looks and feels bad.
yeah, you're probably right. i'm just going to avoid friendly tables.
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:52 PM   #3639
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

If there's one thing that scares fish the most it's not talking about range merging and and fold equity it's a bunch of variance averse live regs who check it down with each other and are always whispering.
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Old 02-25-2011, 02:01 PM   #3640
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

There are 2 guys who I've played $15-30 with a couple times who check it down once everyone else has folded. First, I'd like to say I have no reason to believe these 2 are colluding (outside of the check downs). They don't seem like the colluding type and they do seem to play "normal" when others are in the hand. However, with all that said, I still think soft play with friends should not be allowed for the following reasons:
1. There is an appearance of impropriety
2. It can make non-regulars uncomfortable
3. It can scare away potential customers who are railing the game, see the check-downs, and then assume impropriety
4. As others have said, even if there is no shadiness going on with it, the players may unintentionally play differently with mediocre hands to chase out the 3rd player knowing it will check down once he is eliminated (e.g. top pair bad kicker)

I agree with the folks who said that either you should play normally at all times, or don't sit at a table with your friends. IMHO, soft playing should get a warning and then a ban if it continues. Parx should not tolerate it.

I've played the $15-30 numerous times now and I haven't encountered situations where I've noticed any kind of 3rd base signaling. The players are all friendly, mostly well behaved, and I've enjoyed plenty of "action" tables :-) Sure, sometimes it's been a tight, not so great game, but, overall, I think it's been a pretty good game to play in.
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Old 02-25-2011, 02:14 PM   #3641
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

how you described those two is exactly how i'd describe myself in those situations. but you guys have convinced me. I'm not going to slow play anymore. I'm going to avoid sitting with friends more than anything!
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Old 02-25-2011, 02:36 PM   #3642
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by cl0r0x70 View Post
When I'm at the table with a friend, I get extra joy out of stacking him.
Definitely this.

But I think it's a natural tendency to take it easy on your comrades. It's a different story at a home game with a whole bunch of friends. Stack them... needle them a bit.. but at a table of relative unknowns and your friend, I believe most people to take it easy with one another.

And how that goes down hand per hand may be perceived as softplay if not outright collusion.

Better safe than sorry. Personally, I prefer to play at a table without friends.
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Old 02-25-2011, 02:45 PM   #3643
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by agent87 View Post
There are 2 guys who I've played $15-30 with a couple times who check it down once everyone else has folded. First, I'd like to say I have no reason to believe these 2 are colluding (outside of the check downs). They don't seem like the colluding type and they do seem to play "normal" when others are in the hand. However, with all that said, I still think soft play with friends should not be allowed for the following reasons:
1. There is an appearance of impropriety
2. It can make non-regulars uncomfortable
3. It can scare away potential customers who are railing the game, see the check-downs, and then assume impropriety
4. As others have said, even if there is no shadiness going on with it, the players may unintentionally play differently with mediocre hands to chase out the 3rd player knowing it will check down once he is eliminated (e.g. top pair bad kicker)

I agree with the folks who said that either you should play normally at all times, or don't sit at a table with your friends. IMHO, soft playing should get a warning and then a ban if it continues. Parx should not tolerate it.

I've played the $15-30 numerous times now and I haven't encountered situations where I've noticed any kind of 3rd base signaling. The players are all friendly, mostly well behaved, and I've enjoyed plenty of "action" tables :-) Sure, sometimes it's been a tight, not so great game, but, overall, I think it's been a pretty good game to play in.
Does one of them play half his hands and constantly whine about how bad he runs? They're ok by me.
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Old 02-25-2011, 02:50 PM   #3644
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by MacGuyV View Post
Does one of them play half his hands and constantly whine about how bad he runs? They're ok by me.
Yes, one of them has occasionally made a comment like that. I never commented at the table about these guys soft playing since I didn't want to scare him away ;-)
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Old 02-25-2011, 03:11 PM   #3645
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Had like 3 albanian guys sit down at a 1/2 table I was at, who were apparently all brothers or knew eachother. Immediately everyone else left the table. I wanted to play with them cause they were obvious donks but I guess everyone else was scared off.
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:11 PM   #3646
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by sam_buca View Post
Why do friends play at the same table? I think its kinda dumb. Myself,I don't want to take my friends money....and vice-versa.
I specifically avoid playing at tables that my friends play. I do this for a number of reasons. First, I know my friends' games and they are all solid players. Their seat is one that could easily be filled by a fish. Also, I simply do not want to take my friends money. If it comes down to it, damn right I'll bust 'em. But it would be easier (and more fun) busting a stranger who limps KJo UTG
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:33 PM   #3647
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by agent87 View Post
I agree with the folks who said that either you should play normally at all times, or don't sit at a table with your friends. IMHO, soft playing should get a warning and then a ban if it continues. Parx should not tolerate it.
I've played some 8/16 HOSE with my wife just because we both enjoy the game, there's only one table, and it's fun. We play 100% straight up when it's multiway, but then check it down heads up. I can't imagine how this is harmful for the game except for the misperception of others that something foul is going on. (BTW, we always show our TPTK and overpair or whatever so people can see the real hands...so I guess this is a cost to us for playing together...not that we are required to do this.)

Are you suggesting there is something against the rules here? I'm not sure how or why Parx would warn/ban over this. Is there really a rule that covers this?
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:12 PM   #3648
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Are you suggesting there is something against the rules here? I'm not sure how or why Parx would warn/ban over this. Is there really a rule that covers this?
I may have been too harsh with "ban". I've seen the situation you mention where it's a husband and wife and they clearly aren't purposely cheating in any way. I can't actually find anything in the rulebook (RRoP) that says this is not allowed, other than the general statement where it says:
"The following are not permitted:
Collusion with another player or any other form of cheating."
Some (including myself) generally consider checking it down to be collusion. However, technically speaking, collusion is "a secret understanding between two or more persons to gain something illegally" If nothing is truly being gained illegally (or in a poker sense, we should be saying, "illegitimately"), and it's certainly not a "secret" when players check it down, then I don't really see how this is against the rules.

After a little research, I agree it doesn't mean players should be banned. (even if I don't like the idea of people checking it down...)
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:02 PM   #3649
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

i will say this again, soft playing friends, wives...is cheating. Period. If you are going to softplay someone then do not play at the same table with them.
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:16 PM   #3650
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

I agree that if other tables are available, one should not play with friends if there will be softplaying. However, if there is only 1 table available, then there is not much that can be done. That being said, my friends and I generally will play normal, but we will equity chop pots or give money back to the other later.
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