EXACTLY!

It's fair to say that Rapini and I get along fine. He did a good job creating these 2 sub-forums and he wants on topic content which I respect. It'd be pretty boring for ppl to read about my personal problems esp for visitors seeking info. I see that M&B is gone and it's for a reason. But thanks for the sentiment.

Please use pm's for this from now on, tx.

Thanks HB. You're a great poster and we're lucky to have you on here.

Also, it's totally fine to use the Arizona Regional Communities thread for regs chat.

First, LOL at no fish left in these games.

Second, what's making these games worse for the recreational players is these rule changes. Few of the nits are winning players and even the best nits are only small winners. They don't understand how to play poker well or how the games attract players at all. Thus they constantly lobby for changes to drive away the best players for the game.

Last, we don't have these discussions at the table, which is where the gambling occurs.

I think making the kills less frequent is better for recreational players and will make them less likely to bust out quickly. It is possible it will also make the games less appealing to them though.

As discussed earlier in the thread, removing the kills altogether eliminates a ton of angles, mistakes, and makes the game smaller for those under-rolled for it. But as you said, it might make game less interesting and enjoyable.

Leaving the kill threshold at the same 10 small bets as it is in every other game is the least mistake & angle prone way to have kills in the game if they are necessary to keep the game "fun" and interesting.

Making the kill threshold a unique value per game is the worst of all worlds. Not only does it create more mistakes in the OE, but creates more mistakes in other games, and makes it even easier for regulars to angle recreational players.

A far better compromise would be to keep the 10 small bet threshold, and only have a kill when the game is full or close to full. For example, have the kill automatically taken out when game is 6 handed or less, and added back when 7 handed or more. Kill pots are less frequent at full tables anyways.

The 15 & 16.7 small bet thresholds create significant angle for regs who won't post their kills hoping dealer/players don't catch it, but will force recreational players to post every single one of their kills. That can be a huge advantage. Removing the kill at 6 players doesn't provide an angle of similar advantage, they might occasionally get away with not posting a kill when a 6 handed table goes 7 handed, but that's far less frequent opportunity.

Now with 3 different kill thresholds, every dealer in every game will be miss kills and regs will learn to use dealer confusion/mistakes to angle it to their advantage in every game from 6-12 up.

Has anyone looked at the buy in and rake amount for the sattelite MTTs running for the Az St Champ?

I see on Sunday they have a $110+30+$15 that gives 1 seat for every 10 runners. $45 to the staff and house with $110 going to the value of your seat? What am I missing here? Are the single table sattys charging 29% rake as well?

Someone who is willing to pay 29% rake is someone you want at your state championship table -- don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Ya it was more in reference to wanting to grind the poorly played satties rest of the month myself but clearly not for that amount of juice. Was hoping I was not seeing the numbers correctly.

Do the recreational players enjoy kill pots? What's the point of them? Trying to redistribute money away from the winning players (i.e. players who win more pots are more likely to win two in a row and be forced to pay the kill)?

I always thought they were dumb. If I wanted to play a higher stake I would play that stake instead of the stake I'm playing at now.

If you played most of your hands whenever you are stuck and get on a win streak you can win a ton of money fast. Kill pots reward the hot seat, and players love remembering that streak where they won 8 kill pots in a row and needed help carrying all those chips to the cage.

Hello, I've lurked these forums for years but registered for the first time today because I am considering bringing my wife to this casino specifically to play poker in the near future.

I have to say that these kill rules sound like a nightmare. At the casino I normally play at, the kill is determined by simply counting the chips in the pot after the rake + jackpot drop. If the pot is 20+ chips, it is a kill. Clean and simple, just count it up. Who the hell wants to count bets to the decimal, we are supposed to be gambling here. It is terrible that there are a decent number of people angle shooting this because of the complexity.

I would actually prefer there to be no kills at all, but another thing my home casino has is half kills vs full kills. So 4-8 essentially becomes 6-12, 8-16 is 12-24. You don't have to sit down with quite as many chips (in case you lose a kill pot, you don't instantly become as short stacked if you start with one rack), but the existence of any kill system means that a big, impressive pot to get you unstuck in an instant is still possible. We all know that this is important for the games, so I think a half kill is a good compromise for all.

Anyway, we are probably still going to come but now I have to sit my wife down and explain all of this garbage to her. I am not happy about this and just had to vent a little bit.

There no kill in the spread game if I'm not wrong the 1 / 100 up to 2/ 500

No, I (rec player) hate kills. I'm always losing track if we're in a kill or not and confusing calls for raises, etc. That "lucky streak" business is bunk. Lucky streaks like that are few and far between. It's more like a tax on winning because you have to post a double big blind. That's commie and un-American!

Just play Limit or NL Hold'Em. Leave the Omaha/Mixed Games to "Pros"/"Angle-Shooters"/"Nits"..

IF you really wanna play Omaha/Mixed Games at low stakes go to Vegas. Low Stakes Omaha/Mixed Games in AZ isn't profitable, or more importantly isn't "fun/enjoyable" yet, the games are dominated/ruined by people who think they are Pros and overwhelmed dealers..

I'm a recreational player too who occasionally plays limit. Keeping track of the kill is easy. I listen to the dealer when he or she says it's a kill pot and pay attention when someone wins two pots on a row.

If you play limit Holdem at CAZ, you will be playing with a kill. The dealers should make fewer mistakes because holdem games are always 10 small bets ( and they are taught exact chip count), but occasionally they'll have just dealt OE and get confused.

You are assuming that dealers are always right when they say it's a kill pot, and don't miscount/forget to call a kill, sadly due to the new rules that's often not true.

All this is 100% correct. But Limit/NL Hold'em is much easier to follow/play. But if you can get a seat with Desert Cat (who is not the norm when it comes to Omaha/Mixed games) you'll have fun/be in good hands. But he will take all your money and smile at your wife.

Don't let the discussion here frustrate you.
In LIMIT Holdem games are played full kill when the second pot you pull has at least 10 times the small bet.
So in 3/6 if the second pot you win has $30, it is a full kill to 6/12
in 4/8 if the second pot you win has $40, it is a full kill to 8/16
in 8/16 if the second pot you win has $80, it is a full kill to 16/32

The spread limit games( 3-300, 5-500) don't have a kill

Omaha/8 is played Half kill
4/8 scooped pot of $60 half kills it
8/16 scooped pot of $120 half kills it

OE ( 9 hands of Omaha8 followed by 9 hands of Stud8)
6/12 Limit scoop of $100 FULL kills to 12/24
20/40 Limit scoop of $300 Half Kills to 30/60

What's the intention of Talking Stick by purchasing a front cover ad promoting the AZ State Championship this year?

The tournament gets 400+ players per day for 3 days of re-entry as we saw last 2 years. (50 tables in room, nearly all used for it when it happens). Are they hoping that a bunch more people come and play than previous years? They can't fit hardly anymore than what's come in the previous 2 years anyway UNLESS they plan on adding extra tables. I just don't see the point paying money in advertising a tournament that will probably sell out anyway unless they have intentions of increasing the field size significantly.

They obviously have more money in the PPF than they know what to do with.

I believe they can't have extra tables for a tournament, unless they got special legal permission.

They have always advertised it as a maximum of 400 entries per day for each of the 3 day 1s. This year they have lifted that maximum and stated that it is unlimited entries on each of the three days. This will no doubt lead to having long lists of alternates getting in very late in the day. Say, like the Venetian Deepstack Extravaganza has been doing for years now. Insert Tom's wink here. (And Wynn and Aria to name others).

The advertising is no doubt to grow the field by allowing the daily numbers to get to much larger than the previous 400 max count per day. They also advertise a banner on top of 2+2 forums when you are viewing on your desktop, so clearly they are putting in extra efforts to break all previous years field size records.

No doubt the 29% rake charged in satties, along with the increased field sizes that will be seen the entire week of warmups, along with field size growth of the main event itself will more than make up for the small amount of advertising costs incurred.

I just feel like the tourneys popularity has been growing anyway that it will continue to get bigger even without a sponsored ad. I can't see the benefit of taking out an ad that may bring 25-50 more entries in for the weekend.

If they incurred any advertising costs at all instead of just paying it out of the jackpot fund.

I haven't seen the cover, but assume it's CardPlayer? If so, they didn't pay extra for it. It's part of their annual deal for the in magazine ads they run.