Ah yes, the shuffle machine! It pitches the cards from seat 8 to seat 3 so much better than 3 fingered aunt sally. Not to mention faster.

Then do tell what progress they've made other than putting membership fees in their pockets...

does anyone realize that citztranny is john from tilted jack in the box?

I'm showing you they've made it impossible for anyone to have a public poker room. Taking away something innate to poker like the rake burdens outsiders to the point that is an effective monopoly.

It's true that they have a monopoly on profiting from providing the service of poker. On that we agree.

They do not, however, have a monopoly on people playing the game.

Phoenix NewTimes Blog post:
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/val...and_outspo.php

Harold Lee, Ex-Judge and Outspoken Off-Reservation Gambling Advocate, Convicted of Three Felonies

A Maricopa County jury convicted Harold "Bud" Lee Jr. of three felony counts related to gambling on Friday, including conspiracy and illegal control of an enterprise.

The 68-year-old Lee, who once served as a Phoenix Justice of the Peace, was allowed to remain free from custody until his sentencing, now scheduled for March 7. Lee will be eligible for probation but also faces a possible prison term. We published a story back in April 2009 about Lee's mission in life--which has been to convince the world that Arizona's anti-gambling laws are lunacy.
Trouble for Lee was that he walked the walk, which led the state Attorney General's Office (under then-AG Terry Goddard) to secure a grand-jury conviction against the Phoenix man and two co-defendants, both of whom pleaded guilty earlier to reduced charges.
Poker rooms are against the law in Arizona, except at the 22 casinos on 15 Indian reservations, where a few hundred tables are in service night and day.
Arizona does permit "social gambling" outside of the Indian casinos, but only if no one other than the players collects money from a game, whether it is poker or anything else. It also is illegal for the "house" to charge an entry fee for a poker game off the reservations.
Not that the gendarmes are about to knock down the doors of an Elks club anytime soon, but Lee's "organization," the International Card and Player's Association, charged interested "card room" owners a starting fee of $5,000. In return, he issued a charter and a quasi-business plan for an off-reservation poker room, collecting (he told us) as much as 15 percent of the profits from said owners.

Lee told us for the story that he also made "a little money" from the $20 annual "membership fee" charged to every new poker player at one of his rooms. He claimed that more than a thousand people "joined" one of his onetime affiliates, the now-defunct Club Royale in Tucson.
Prosecutors from the AG's Office (assistant attorney general Todd Lawson tried the case) sought the indictments after agents from the Arizona Department of Gaming completed a lengthy investigation.
It apparently marked the first time in Arizona that authorities brought felony charges against individuals under the state's illegal gambling laws.
The indictments focus on illegal gambling that went on at the Ace High Card Room and Social Club in Surprise. That club is no longer is in business.

Wrong word used or is Arizona justice strange?

Well someone in our camp is reaching out to the ADG (again) this week. And Judge Lee is going to appeal so filing a declaratory action seems like a waste of time at this point. Another letter goes out next week to district 2 city
Council member and district 3 country supervisor. First letter to Govenor goes out after that. And something special for azleague.org is going after ADG tells us they can't or won't regulate cardrooms for a city or county even though Title 5 says the director can...

No, some clubs do more than make change for a 20$.

Does anyone realize that you are so smart, and as much fun as it might be to fall prey to your flaming pie hole remark and admit that were true, citztranny would be banned a 4th time here if that were the case. Then what fun would you having talking about the issues?

Even more 2+2 nitty nit is the users who claim citztranny has been banned several times and in a totally shady and underhanded manner, which most certainly is indicitive of the way he operates his totally illegal cardroom...

Citztran doesnt need to hide who he (or she) haha is, but the lovely nits without such insular knowledge do love to show how smart and xlever they are by pretending they are super sleuths. Thank you captain obvious. I see you are also a one time poster. And what did you get banned for?

Or are you just out painting targets?

I do not care.

Just because someone is a new poster does not mean they are a banned poster.

I thought you were moving to Montana.

So let me get this straight...

Someone's made a phone call, and you might send some more useless letters while Felon Harold Lee tries to appeal.

That's the sum total of what they've done other than make change for $20 bills?

If it's true, it's just more proof you're unable to follow simple rules and willing to deceive; as it makes casual readers of this thread think that support for your side isn't limited to a handful of profiteering room owners.

In short, it makes you even less credible.

dear john:

I was never banned like you sir, and for you to claim that you are a social poker gambling room and not one of the owners trying to make a profit, look in the mirror real good and keep telling your self that. Of all the owners present and past you sir are the most greediest. You should take the states advise and pack up and shut down.

The AZ15 article reads much like the press release and the New Times article.

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...legal-gambling

...highlighting that Felon Harold Lee should have known better.

Thank you for not caring Chaos. For some whos who saying what is all thay matters here.

And yes, i am im Montana now and as of 5:40pm my IP addy is still active on 2+2 yeah!

This is called diaharia of the mouth, when you keep running it and running it and cant stop. Where do you get off claiming you've audited all the card rooms and have determined that this John fellow is the greediest of them all. I will have you know that I KNOW John and he hasnt had a full tank of gas in his car since 2010. Ya, he's a greedy bastard.

Is that an invitation for the mother of all walls of text? You dont want to know what i have done to protect a not unlawful cardroom... What have YOU done to protect your not unlawful home game with your questionably legal mandatory proposition bet...

Letters to educate our leaders and mertings to cooperatively work on a solution are not useless The Palimax. How else do you suggest we enact the change you and I both would like to see?

True. But not by my choice, there is the difference.

Flamers incite me. I get banned. Cant even use my real name any more. Its a forum morons. Let us express opinions. So far im doing pretty good. Now that i know the rules.

Kinda like operating a not unlawful cardroom.

Do not try this at home. Only business model where you can lose money every month and still get attacked by the clueless for being the greediest of all cash grabbers. Lol

So, uh, two years and you wrote a letter?!?

YOU WROTE A LETTER?!?

That's the hard, hard, work you did to change the legal landscape of poker?

Gee, shame I missed showing up for meetings... ...and paying my dues.

maybe we should all write letters?

you think that will help the owners of these non profit rooms?

or should I say this only one non profit room? the tilted jack? Because there are no other rooms trying to operate like that.

what does the owner pay him self at this non profit room?

Here is an example of the paradise cove when it was operating

the members fee was upfront $20-25 dollars

then the members had a monthly fee as well of around $15.00 which they will deduct when your getting chips from the cage

and they have the so called button donation frowned on fee if you dont pay up.

and he stated 600 members one point earlier claiming to be close to a 1000

600 x 20= 12,000 membership fees

600 x 15= 9,000 a month in monthly fees

wow plus you have the donation button which I wont estimate it but sure looks like this nonprofit sure was paying its owner/manager lots of money to play poker and to fight for there rights to play poker.

So is the money you claim you spend on fighting for rights really your money or your members?

And really how much does it cost to send a certified letter?

As an outside observer, may I ask you to stop with the personal attacks and stay on topic? I do not want to see this thread closed.

I play a little bit at Pete's and a little more at Sal's/Mike's game (with the crazy bosnians).

Odds of getting butt-****ed in the coming months? I don't feel like being arrested for playing poker.

It's not so much an attack as pointing out the reality of the business models of these clubs, or countering their outright lies about their pretend goals to advance anything other than their cash intake.

The current lie is that it's somehow OK if you're a non-profit or a cooperative; when in fact, the state doesn't care one iota if you lose money, break even, or give the profits straight to Jesus himself.

I work for a massive non-profit, and I benefit to the tune of a healthy annual salary.

---

If you want to make change, propose some legislation and collect signatures or find a sponsor in the state house. It's that simple.

If you write good legislation, I'll be the first to sign it - and I'll donate you my time and money to help advance it.

...or, just keep grabbing "voluntary" button fees until you get to plead to probation from your yacht.

Honestly? Your odds are low. And to my knowledge, no player has ever had more than their name run for wants/warrants before being sent on their way...

Pretending I have a crystal ball? I think you'll likely see another bust or two -- the police had plenty of cooperation from the room owners in the Lee trial -- and then I think you'll see political pressure (a la Gilbert) in running rooms out of town.

The rooms will play whack-a-mole for a while. There's plenty of spaces to rent, and people are sheep - and the lure of easy money has a very strong appeal (or so I've been told). They'll move around more. Their owners will safely live out of state and their managers will get busted eventually. [Living out of state didn't help the Nuts owners...]