I see how you got to 4,000 posts. By never saying anything that makes any sense.

losing player decides to wager $2500 he can break even over 30k hands in 24 hours. gets action, wants to some shady conditions like his real life friend being the escrow, no camera, etc. eventually agrees to fairly reasonable conditions.

he barely succeeds at prop, winning by something like $20. but some hands at the end look strange with a villain playing really odd, with the result of villain donating $250 to op on the tables exactly when he needed it.

op denies everything. investigation/hole cards shows op was playing just as strange as the potential dumpers making very uncharacteristic plays. op explains it away claiming he was just tilted and tired.

mystery man comes in actively defending op and calling the judges' ability into question if they think anything is at all suspicious about these hands. mystery man 2 also comes into play with similar rhetoric.

mystery man 1 is forced to admit by a mod that he is actually the same person as mystery man 2. and not only this but mystery man 1 is a friend of the OP, and has a direct connection to the potential dumper.

more hands start to be called into question with op and villains making some uncharacteristic plays and winning monies from them as well ($1400 in total from 3 potential dumpers). again it turns out only one of these potential dumpers has ever even played at $200NL (where the prop was played), and for the most part are nanostakes SNG grinders, and also have a direct connection to mystery man 1. the one potential dumper who has played at $200 played a handful of games roughly 9 months ago.

stars gets called in as another party to investigate it all. we're waiting for their response.

a person who has supported OP in this thread, or the potential dumpers, begin working to delete their association on various websites.

I ran the above quote through the Babel Fish translator (English to Truth) and I was shocked at what I saw:

haha, ROM might be the first poster in BBV that has made me laugh more than once.

lol awesome rom

the deleting of their association on that web site is pretty dooming if this is all just a big coincidence.....*cough cough*

Edit - its all pretty dooming, each piece of evidence just keeps getting better pretty sick.

Also this is starting to look more and more shady by the hour. Mad props to Jalex for his investigative work. I do feel as though he looked at it with the perspective of tryin to prove Gary_Neville guilty, rather than just looking at the information objectively, but his work in this thread has been very diligent and thorough, so that is admirable.

One point that keeps coming up, is "what are the odds of someone who hasn't played in months showing up on THIS day and appearing on ALL garys tables? quite a coincidence"..... me and a friend were planning to put some money onto stars, not having played cash on there for months, to exclusively target Garys tables to try and exploit him, we thought that a breakeven player playing 30,000 hands continuously would be quite the easy pickings, but instead we bet on the australian horse racing and did our oats.. but the point is, IF someone felt like taking a shot based on this bet, it would make perfect sense for them to appear on ALL of Nevilles tables.

Thats not to say this is what occured with the MA'ers friends , just an alternative opinion to what could have went down.


The background connection between them all just gets more and more suspicious though...

jalexand42 is an _AWESOME_ judge. Thats all.

Stop spamming the thread - you've provided nothing except a ******ed cheering squad these past few days.

I don't think you get it sir. Again, I'm not denying the possibility that op cheated, imo 50/50 now we don't know for sure and here your saying you have pretty solid evidence, the only solid evidence that we can get is from stars. And you say your not biased? Whats even worse is that your not just some random 2p2er giving their thoughts on the matter. Your a judge. What i am saying is how you handled this whole thing is extreme poor. How many judges are there? 2, 3? Its like a jury deliberating by himself and telling the public what he thinks without the other jurors and than saying you know what? forget the DNA evidence, from what i heard and seen this guy seems guilty so **** him.

Ok, all that aside lets assume that gary did cheat. Why are you on this thread telling the public you think gary cheated when your the judge, not to mention there is 2 more. You should only be stating facts here to keep people informed ,and then only make a deliberation along with the other two judges when you actually do get some solid evidence from stars. How you told everyone that you have made up your mind that gary cheated based on your own opinions some circumstantial evidence is just not cool. You really shouldn't judge again.

+1

Chances Stars finds the 'smoking gun' that seals this are v slim.

Better process for settling is:

1) If Stars finds enough evidence then Gary loses the bet
2) If they don't then judges make the final decision

Oh and here are the bettors:

terp 3k (or more) (3k confirmed by escrow)
mythrilfox 750
hellokittery 600
lemming 300 (confirmed by escrow)
Pocket Watch 300
BoC34 300 (confirmed by escrow)
spacecakezzz/Gene Fish 750
Verstehen ???
Th3_S1aught3r - The rest?

Here is another thing i don't understand, why either party are allowed to spam this thread.

I just read through this entire thread and quite frankly don't find anything near proof that OP cheated in any way. What many of the members here easily forget (myself included) is how massive of an amount 30,000 hands really is. Most players don't even play 30,000 hands in a month. How many times during the course of 30,000 hands do you nail some drunk fish dumping a buy in on a stupid pre flop "bluff"? I know it happens to me at least a dozen times during a 30,000 hand period, maybe more. Every situation described as "daming evidence" could easily - and does - occur during a 30,000 hand grind.

Ship OP the funds IMO.

It's not like "ship the man his manies" or "wow, lol so guilty" are going to really sway the opinion of anybody who matters one way or the other. And those posts have actually proved helpful in that a large number of them have come from people associated with the chip dumpers which provides yet more circumstantial evidence.

Drunk fish spewing? sure.

But drunk fish spewing against a guy whos involved in a prop bet where 1 buyin can make the difference, and drunk fish's sessions being only against this guy, and drunk fish only spewing against this guy, THEN drunk fish turning out to be friends with his close friend, cant say it ever happened to me....

And then another drunk fish happens to have the same exact thing and connection....

No way OP gets the money imo. At most bets will be returned because ppl are putting too much hope in stars. PLenty of evidence already imo, but maybe judges will say bets returned if stars wont come up with anything which is a huge possibility

May God help your sorry arse

Talk about jumping on a bandwagon.

Ive not read the whole thread, But i saw some of the 'guilty' HH's and they all look completley standard to me, even moreso as it was a Friday.

And saying that because Gary's Friends Students' were involved is just a joke, you guys have heard of 'Six Degrees of Separation Theory' right? Considering how many pokerplaying friends Gary probably has, theres probably at least 100 more players that hands are 'suspicious' because they're a Friends Brothers Girlfriends nephew or some other crap like that.

Just my view on this, No i dont know him.

However, I am a bit soft.

So I guess we can still bet on Gary winning this bet or not?
What are the odds?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cn7xfBpZ3M

ok so yesterday I was thinking it looked very much like Gary was guilty but obv no concrete proof yet. Now after reading rest of the thread I'm kind of on the fence probably leaning towards him not being guilty of it. Seriously though the logic skills of some people are pretty weak. Let's use an analogy. Someone runs a marathon and breaks a record. People accuse him of taking steroids. He is connected with someone known for providing athletes with steroids. That is the one legit piece of evidence but not enough to convict him on its own.

So people ask "so not only did he know this guy, but it rained on Sunday, his mom's sister was baking cookies at the time of the race, my brother was sick yesterday, and the Yankees won the last 3 in a row. None of these things have anything to do with the guy being guilty but they're all unlikely and added together surely it can't be some big coincidence can it???"

3-betting offsuit junk should be 100% completely removed as any evidence against OP unless you can prove where there was collusion in those hands. Basically people are saying he 3-bet his friends with offsuit air as a signal "ok we're going to collude now"? Without showing down? Interesting. Even Jalex admitted that the only significance of it was that it led to him investigating those two accounts. Unless you think those specific hands were collusion (which is just really dumb if you look at timing. He wanted a few bucks early/middle of the bet?), please stop talking about that being evidence towards collusion.

Honestly if Roseeker/Nostalgica hadn't come in and acted shady as hell I'd be ready to say Gary's practically 100% innocent. People fail to realize how small the poker world really is. I don't know too many people in the 6max community but I'm almost positive you could link me by friend of friend connections to practically every single micro/small/midstakes full ring grinder on Stars or FTP. I'm sure Gary knows people through poker and is friends of friends with a ****ton of people in the 6max community. The problem is there's just a huge logic error. You're looking at the people who lost the most, finding connections, then saying "given those connections, what are the odds he loses the most to him?" That's quite simply backwards logic. If you had found RoSeeker/Nostalgica and Breeeze before any look through the database as his 2 best friends and THEN looked and saw they were the people who lost a bunch to OP that would be WAYYY more conclusive. But that's not how the investigation was done.

Basically I'm saying the odds of him being connected to 2 micro grinders who took shots is very high, but the odds of 2 specific micro grinders he's connected to taking shots and losing a bunch to him is not so likely. The reality is the former happened and people are pretending the latter happened. Hopefully you can see the difference.

Anyway the most shady part is still how they are acting in response to these accusations and trying to downplay the correlation between them. I'm still on the fence but I think there is a ****ton of horrible logic being used in this thread and it's simply not fair to OP. Also it doesn't help that everytime OP tries to respond in this thread no matter what he says someone says it's psychological evidence and that an innocent person wouldn't act that way. Personally if I were Gary and innocent I wouldn't post anything in this thread unless I was asked a direct factual question and then I would answer truthfully with no opinion/emotion involved. If you want to argue/counter anything send it to the judge imo. Nothing good can come of getting involved with the bbv mob.

Cliffs:
- people suck at logic
- the case against Gary is a lot weaker than most seem to think
- there's still some shady stuff and it's possible he's guilty and judges have plenty reason to continue to investigate

Firstly let me clear up I am not here to post arguements about "sides". I am here only to clear my own name, I actually couldn't care less about the conclusion of this bet as long as my name is not put alongside the other people in this bet regardless of if they are found innocent or guilty. Imagine if you were me and some people you were closely linked to had been accused of this and then links posted about you. It makes me look bad.


As for the question:
I have never been introduced to him, he has been referred to in passing such as like "gary neville is going for SNE this year" or a link to this thread to show me what he is trying to attempt. I was linked before this scandal broke out fwiw and I came into this thread 1 or 2 days after the bet had finished I think.

Yogi Berra's Greatest Hits:
--when you see a fork in the road, take it
--half the lies they tell about me aren't true
--50/50 now we don't know for sure

Boy, I sure am glad Gary has been answering with no opinion/emotion involved. Makes me feel like he's innocent.

Oh, wait...nevermind.

He can't help himself. Cue Gary in 3.....2....1.....

if you dont like losing i suggest you find a diffrent hobby other than gambling on prop bets that can 99% finish one way , this guy should be payed immediatly , if or if not hes pulled off a bit of a touch here is irrelevent . if ppl are willing to gamble hundreds of pounds over a forum then more fool you . you all knew from the outset that a bet like this could be manipulated yet u still went on thinking you could make some easy money and now you have lost all the dolls are being thrown from your prams . you knew the risks and yet you still cry like babies when you know you have been had , makes me looooool , as teddykgb would say at the end of rounders ... he beat me , pay that man his money !!!

Gary Neville, what an appropriate name.

I agree, to me this topic just mostly looks like they are all trying to get evidence why he DID CHEAT and not the other way around. And it's all such indirect proof