Here is the entire thread leading up to that post, in which he profanely took the decidedly minority viewpoint on reporting chip dumping.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...umping-596550/

Why don't you post the hands you lost Gary? You don't think it's coincidental that you didn't lose a single significant pot to the three fish during the 30k stretch - OTHER than the one where you made an amazing fold of QQ to a minraise from the 78/35 (I think these were his stats) on a K64Kr board?

Noone else thinks these hands are interesting as the bet was coming to a close? Does anyone wanna go look through the other rongrong hands and see if the spewed off to ANYONE else? Or is it just another coincidence if he only got all in with 89o vs our hero?


***** Hand History for Game 41397964136 ***** (Poker Stars)
$200.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, March 19, 03:13:03 ET 2010
Table Mimosa II (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: Bluffsalot83 ( $230.85 USD )
Seat 2: Teiresias216 ( $274.90 USD )
Seat 3: Rongrong ( $169.00 USD )
Seat 4: MilitiaRusha ( $930.80 USD )
Seat 5: shnizzel ( $209.00 USD )
Seat 6: Hesselgren ( $363.00 USD )
Teiresias216 posts small blind [$1.00 USD].
Rongrong posts big blind [$2.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MilitiaRusha [ Td Th ]
MilitiaRusha raises [$6.00 USD]
shnizzel folds
Hesselgren folds
Bluffsalot83 folds
Teiresias216 calls [$5.00 USD]
Rongrong raises [$167.00 USD]
MilitiaRusha calls [$163.00 USD]
Teiresias216 folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2h, 7d, 5h ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jd ]
** Dealing River ** [ 8d ]
Rongrong shows [9d, 8s ]
MilitiaRusha shows [Td, Th ]


***** Hand History for Game 41396981756 ***** (Poker Stars)
$200.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, March 19, 02:50:31 ET 2010
Table Mimosa II (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: Bluffsalot83 ( $221.45 USD )
Seat 2: Teiresias216 ( $200.00 USD )
Seat 3: Rongrong ( $197.80 USD )
Seat 4: MilitiaRusha ( $752.65 USD )
Seat 6: Roelfs1 ( $328.10 USD )
Teiresias216 posts small blind [$1.00 USD].
Rongrong posts big blind [$2.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MilitiaRusha [ Ah Ac ]
MilitiaRusha raises [$6.00 USD]
Roelfs1 folds
Bluffsalot83 folds
Teiresias216 calls [$5.00 USD]
Rongrong raises [$8.00 USD]
MilitiaRusha raises [$50.00 USD]
Teiresias216 folds
Rongrong raises [$187.80 USD]
MilitiaRusha calls [$141.80 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6h, 8c, 5c ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5d ]
** Dealing River ** [ Jd ]
Rongrong shows [Qs, Ks ]
MilitiaRusha shows [Ah, Ac ]
MilitiaRusha wins $399.60 USD from main pot


***** Hand History for Game 41395142252 ***** (Poker Stars)
$200.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, March 19, 02:11:50 ET 2010
Table Mimosa II (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: Bluffsalot83 ( $204.15 USD )
Seat 2: Teiresias216 ( $213.85 USD )
Seat 3: Rongrong ( $415.55 USD )
Seat 4: MilitiaRusha ( $440.60 USD )
Seat 5: Jaral ( $718.20 USD )
Seat 6: Roelfs1 ( $293.65 USD )
Roelfs1 posts small blind [$1.00 USD].
Bluffsalot83 posts big blind [$2.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MilitiaRusha [ Qc Qs ]
Teiresias216 folds
Rongrong raises [$4.00 USD]
MilitiaRusha raises [$20.00 USD]
Jaral calls [$20.00 USD]
Roelfs1 folds
Bluffsalot83 folds
Rongrong calls [$16.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6d, 4h, Kd ]
Rongrong checks
MilitiaRusha checks
Jaral checks
** Dealing Turn ** [ Kc ]
Rongrong checks
MilitiaRusha bets [$26.00 USD]
Jaral folds
Rongrong raises [$52.00 USD]
MilitiaRusha folds
Rongrong wins $26.00 USD
Rongrong wins $112.00 USD from main pot


We're really folding to a minraise here after checking flop? Really? As a point of reference, this hand had just happened between them:

***** Hand History for Game 41394405937 ***** (Poker Stars)
$200.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, March 19, 01:54:55 ET 2010
Table Mimosa II (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: Bluffsalot83 ( $200.00 USD )
Seat 2: Teiresias216 ( $200.00 USD )
Seat 3: Rongrong ( $851.05 USD )
Seat 4: MilitiaRusha ( $370.00 USD )
Seat 5: Jaral ( $374.25 USD )
Seat 6: Roelfs1 ( $300.30 USD )
Roelfs1 posts small blind [$1.00 USD].
Bluffsalot83 posts big blind [$2.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MilitiaRusha [ Ah Kh ]
Teiresias216 raises [$8.00 USD]
Rongrong calls [$8.00 USD]
MilitiaRusha raises [$28.00 USD]
Jaral folds
Roelfs1 folds
Bluffsalot83 folds
Teiresias216 folds
Rongrong calls [$20.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4s, 2c, 8h ]
Rongrong checks
MilitiaRusha bets [$6.00 USD]
Rongrong calls [$6.00 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Tc ]
Rongrong checks
MilitiaRusha checks
** Dealing River ** [ 2h ]
Rongrong bets [$20.00 USD]
MilitiaRusha calls [$20.00 USD]
Rongrong shows [5s, Jc ]
MilitiaRusha shows [Ah, Kh ]

Shane, any reason you haven't responded to my questions, since you're innocent here?


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...=#post17687263

Would you please post additional hands where you 3bet a single raiser from the blinds with offsuit junk?

Do you agree that 3betting from the blinds vs a single raiser is different than 3betting in position or squeezing?

You continue to assert that I'm biased, I ran a filter based on the exact same situation as your hand vs breeezzz, trying to see if you indeed 3bet junk in that situation 'all the time'.

Again, the 3betting isn't significantly material by itself, but it's pretty damn weird it HAPPENED to be against 2 players your buddy has a relationship with.

Wow, nice find on the QQ on KxxK combined with the AK ace-high river call.

Would definitely like to know OP's poker logic for his play in these two hands vs this opponent.

I would say that 3betting from the blinds is different than 3betting from the Button. But I think sqz3betting from the blinds should be deemed as similar/if not the same as just 3betting an original raiser.

edit: I mean sure it is slightly different, but I really doubt you can leave it out and then claim that "I've only 3bet offsuit trash 3 times entire 30k hands"

It's also LOL that people think you have to find a smoking gun in OP's hand to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he cheated on this propbet.

Sure, there is going to be some doubt for the sake of 'anything is possible' but it simply does not appear reasonable to conclude that the mounting evidence demonstrates that there was not coordinated cheating on the propbet.

At the very least it can be argued that there were side bets going on in favor of OP that motivated interested parties to dump, therefore botching the results for all honest participants and that all bets should be returned.

I've posted these hands before, but obviously all the droolers in BBV who either don't play poker or lose money playing poker didn't see anything questionable....

lol, sure.

But....if I want Gary NOT to eke a profit, why would I dump him just enough to let him eke a profit? So that he could be accused of cheating and have his honor and dignity die in a dumpster fire thread? I'd rather just beat the pants off him with TAG poker. Then I can win at the table AND my side bet. Unless Gary cheats, of course.

Full Disclosure: I have no monetary interest in the outcome of this controversy.

Sounds like a very unbiased and impartial judges response.

Everywhere ITT I've heard you and other non-judges SAY and STATE that I've 3betted offsuit junk 3 times throughout the entire session (AT MOST you mentioned from the SB/BB). 3betting INCLUDES 3bet squeezing and 3betting a single raiser.

[ ] Knows statistical/hypothesis testing
[x] Tweaking statistical evidence

You may be a computer forensic guy, I respect you for that, but you may know what truly constitutes real statistical evidence and what not.

Gary, I think jalex was just loling you because he disagrees with your point and doesn't want to argue with you about it.

It's one thing to question his findings and conclusions. It's pretty clear what your position is on that. But please don't call him biased and partial because he just isn't. The only ones who are biased are the ones who have money at stake in this, which includes YOU.

You can disagree all you want with the people who think you cheated.

You can agree all day with the people who think you won.

But you can't call people biased and partial just because they approached the pattern of facts from an originally unbiased and impartial perspective and reached a conclusion you don't like.

LOL. SURE.

jalex man, u cant really ask gary to give his thoughts on why he did x/y and z

obv your going to think his reasonsing sucks more often than not, theres a reason u play midstakes + and he doesnt...

FYP.

POST SOME HANDS where you lost pots to these three players.

Edit: And to be clear, don't waste our time with pots where you check down crap and win a $15 pot. Or is it another weird coincidence that the QQ hand is the only one that you lost?

No point arguing with a biased judged, amirite? GO THROUGH all your posts (and I mean all, not just the ones where you try to be nice and tell me that you hope I win) and tell me how in any way is your tone and the way you word things/tweak evidence in your "news flash" not representing any bias? I don't need an English major to realize that. I am also pretty sure I'm not the only one who sees that.

"POST SOME HANDS where you lost pots to these three players."

Yeah you've done that for me, and apparently every pot of every size I lose is evidence of me covering up/smokescreening for chip dumping.

You sent your evidence into Pokerstars already. So lets just all STFU and wait it out.

Edit: And to be clear, don't waste my time and have me search all quotes by myself. Since you are so sure you weren't biased, plz quote all the posts you made since you came in and explain line by line why you weren't actually biased.

lol you rly don't seem keen on defending yourself using any sort of evidence. just saying that jalexand42 did this or did not do that, isn't partial and w/e.

weird.


also 10$ to whoever PMs me when stars support gives a conclusive reply in this thread

And obv since all of you are 100% clear/convinced that I'm already guilty, so really there isn't much point of me talking/"defending myself using any sort of evidence" (really? what evidence can I possibly say/use at this moment in time other than explain why/how I played those hands those ways?).

Bye bye.

Hope BlackIze won't mind me posting this, I sincerely doubt that he will....

Here's our first AIM conversation, COMPLETELY unedited other than changing our screennames.

[16:21] jalexand42: test
[16:21] BlackIze: hey
[16:21] jalexand42: hi!
[16:22] jalexand42: so can you give me the cliffnotes?
[16:23] BlackIze: basically 1200 hands before the end of the bet, a .05/.10 grinder moves up to 1/2 and plays those 2 hands against gary_neville
[16:23] BlackIze: at the time gary is down ~300
[16:23] BlackIze: he wins ~248 off of this breez guy
[16:23] BlackIze: there is now evidence that breez played another spewy hand on another table that gary was not present for though
[16:24] jalexand42: you could watch that breez dude's session on PTR right?
[16:24] jalexand42: and see if he gets involved in other hands or plays crazy in other spots?
[16:25] jalexand42: him 3 betting with 86o is pretty weirdish tho
[16:25] BlackIze: agreed
[16:25] BlackIze: he 3bets trash quite a bit
[16:25] jalexand42: oh ok
[16:25] BlackIze: but against fish it's mostly as squeezes
[16:25] jalexand42: the QQ hand could be totally normal
[16:25] jalexand42: if he's a dude that just tilts off
[16:25] jalexand42: but
[16:25] jalexand42: usually he'll do it against everyone
[16:26] BlackIze: right
[16:26] jalexand42: how did the accusation come up?
[16:26] BlackIze: people saw the QQ hand as it went down
[16:26] jalexand42: the QQ hand?
[16:26] jalexand42: ok
[16:26] BlackIze: and then i found the 86 hand looking through the database
[16:26] BlackIze: not only is the 3bet bad and kind of weird
[16:26] BlackIze: the double barrel seems bad to me too
[16:26] BlackIze: when an unknown calls a cbet on the AJx board
[16:26] jalexand42: depends on if he had some sort of read
[16:26] jalexand42: that the guy was ******ed
[16:26] BlackIze: no reads
[16:27] BlackIze: 4 or 5 hands on the guy
[16:27] jalexand42: it's also hard for me to put myself in the head of a 1/2 player haha
[16:27] jalexand42: because it's certainly bad to be 3 betting that
[16:27] jalexand42: against some rando
[16:27] BlackIze: and the only hand that breez had "played" was to open the CO and fold to a 3bet
[16:27] jalexand42: well it's bad regardless, let me be more clear lol
[16:27] jalexand42: post flop is probably just fine
[16:28] jalexand42: and
[16:28] jalexand42: if they were chip dumping
[16:28] jalexand42: why did he fold turn
[16:28] jalexand42: so the fact the dude folds turn makes me LESS suspicious
[16:28] BlackIze: right
[16:28] jalexand42: plus this would be terrible chip dumping
[16:28] BlackIze: agreed
[16:29] jalexand42: way better to wait until the prop bet dude has a big hand
[16:29] jalexand42: put alot in pre and fold
[16:29] BlackIze: true
[16:29] jalexand42: so i'd default to not suspicious
[16:29] jalexand42: but if it was me
[16:30] jalexand42: i'd be reviewing that other dude's sessions at 1/2
[16:30] jalexand42: on PTR
[16:30] jalexand42: if you see other similar play, no brainer innocent
[16:30] BlackIze: he's got like 50 hands at 1/2
[16:30] jalexand42: did he make it by the skin of his teeth ?
[16:30] BlackIze: yes
[16:30] jalexand42: nasty
[16:30] BlackIze: gary was +19.50 at the end
[16:31] jalexand42: did he get involved in any other pots?
[16:31] BlackIze: against gary? not really
[16:31] jalexand42: no other people
[16:31] jalexand42: the breeezz dude
[16:32] BlackIze: i've heard yes he got involved on another table in 4b/fold
[16:32] BlackIze: im looking at ptr to verify that now
[16:32] jalexand42: ok
[16:32] jalexand42: my vote off what you've told me so far is that it wasn't colluding
[16:32] jalexand42: if you find that hand on ptr, or others
[16:32] jalexand42: let me know
[16:32] jalexand42: i can look at those too
[16:32] jalexand42: and then if you want me to help post something as far as my reasoning i would
[16:33] BlackIze: im definitely going to have you post reasoning
[16:33] jalexand42: if they were colluding, they wouldn't do someting like the T7o hand.
[16:33] BlackIze: well i agree
[16:33] jalexand42: occam's razor :P
[16:33] jalexand42: same thing on the 86 hand
[16:33] BlackIze: my objectivity has been questioned so you can understand why im being exceptionally cautious about all this
[16:34] jalexand42: ok
[16:34] jalexand42: yeah let me know what you find on ptr
[16:34] jalexand42: and i can post my thoughts tonight or tomorrow
[16:34] jalexand42: might have to be tomorrow
[16:34] jalexand42: i have a crapload of stuff going on tonight
[16:35] BlackIze: yeah i don't think another day will make a difference
[16:35] jalexand42: i can def post from work

I have taken the position of not posting in this thread anymore if I can help it. I am not shady, and tried my hardest to respond to all accusations and questions, and somehow people insist that I am shady based on the fact that I know OP and other players. I will note that I've staked and sweated and chatted with a LOT of different players, and quite a few with whom I still talk to now and then..

Breeezzz being one of them, but whom I've spoken to about 3-4 times before this prop bet, though I have spoken to him AFTER the thread became a big "thing". I've done loads of small transfers with him, with buying pieces, selling pieces, and transfers to FTP, but nothing within 10 days of this thread's creation, and all less than $200 at most this year, if not ever (we may have done bigger transfers in the long past, but none this year afaik).

As for stoppedclock I know this person from my university's student union event, we got talking about poker, I said I played online, and helped the person, gave basic bankroll + theory advice and linked to 2+2 forums. I have not followed closely. I have the msn contact but do NOT use it often at all. We have not IM'd for the past month+ afaik, and certainly not within the last 3 weeks. Last time we talked it was about a film, not poker.

I do not know of anyone else playing at this time. I loaded up some tables, recognized some regs (chicago joey? or someone else) names on some tables/waitlists, but nobody I know personally. I tried to watch from my client but the internet was very bad and I quit. Later I joined the webcam chat and saw someone I knew mentioned and immediately followed it, out of obvious curiosity. I KNEW that OP does not know him and he was being attacked for chip dumping (I did not know if this was a joke) so I tried to defend him. Yes I downplayed our relationship, but NEVER LIED. It is, however, true, that I have not spoken him much recently AT ALL, but we used to be quite close.

btw, I spoke to 00doug very often, I consider him a good player and friend. This is why he is on my weaktight list. As mentioned I did not remove him, but he removed me. btw, I have removed my picture from my weaktight because I don't like my face being floating everywhere and related to a scandal like this, please respect this. Also, please do not call me by my first name. I think you will agree that we are not on first name basis. If you are doing this to avoid the roseeker/nostalgica thing, just use roseeker/nostalgica or roseeker please.

I sweat through pokerstars interface briefly. I played against OP at PLOHU before the propbet because he said he couldn't sleep. I said he should probably try rest but he was bored. My internet got bad and I timed out a few times so I decided to quit. He still wanted to play though. During the thing I did not use mikogo or watch behind the shoulder of any player or anything like that. I played some poker on another site in the meantime, but also quit because of bad internet. I watched a bit at the start and near the end of the prop bet through the webcam channel. I did not voice chat or use the phone during this period or use msn or anything with anyone.

I used the other account because I was on my mobile and it was logged in. I have decided to stick to this one in this thread, but has mostly used the other since I made the account. Yes occasionally I log in wrong and use the account but if you check postings, the majority of my posts are made on my other account recently.

I have put my relationship with the players here clearly, and I think I have answered your questions. I wish not to participate in the discussion any further until stars emails and forces me to. I was wasting my time following this thread, and it's pretty much a stalemate here until stars finishes the investigation and presumably emails us, so I won't bother with reading or posting until then. I tried to clear the name of my friend and then myself, and clearly it is not working even though I have tried to be direct and straightforward, so I do not want to make things worse.

the thing you need to consider is, checking a 30000 hand sample how many suspicious things will you find on average by chance? maybe someone submits a random 30k sample and we will than have some sherlocks viewing the hands and trying to find evidence?

btw. that rongrong guy is almost for sure just a donk ******, i see no problems with that hands and that jalex guy seems at least biased to me.

+1

I might not have made this clear in my last couple of posts, my apologies. But I stated somewhere before that you may have STARTED as an impartial judge (I respect that) and that ever since your first piece of suspicious evidence, everything you've said/done/posted, including its tone and including the way in which it was constructed, and including the way it was presented to the BBV masses, represents a biased (and also a heavy drama queen/attention whoring) and partial point of view.

Again, I may not like it, but I don't blame you for that since obv personal opinions cloud judgment.

But how often are those drunk fish that shove with T7o micro grinders that you have connections to? Why would those 'drunk fish' try to sway the judges decision in this prop bet? OP is clearly cheating and if you can't see the proof you are delusional.

They did: