yeah mj wasn't much of a game 7 player (rang'd 6/6 in 6 games or less)

You brought up game 7s. Here are the numbers in game 7 playoffs.









For game 6 (also important)

LeBron James has averaged 29.0 points, 9.8 rebounds and 7.9 assists in 24 games in game sixes in his career.

Michael Jordan averaged 31.3 points, 6.3 assists and 6.2 rebounds in 13 games in game sixes in his career.


I'm taking Bran.



If you want to break down the game further within the lines. I'm still taking Bran.


Bill Russell went 11-1 in the finals, is 6-0>11-1 because Russell lost 1 time in the finals?

LeBron, Yup only 2 season 82 games .
Only 55 games on average the last 6 ! (33% misses games)
65 games on average the least 13 years ! (20% missed games)

Freakn joke …
Real longevity Kareem 78 games played throughout his entire career …(5% missed games)
Jordan 77 games even counting his season with 18 games and 17 games included as full season …

Lebron and this era weak sauce .
Imagine how on fire Jordan would be by missing 20% of games per season ….

i'll take the guy who's in da club during game 7 because he already shipped in 6 over the check my $tat$ loser

Jordan retired twice because of mental fatigue.

Give it a rest.


Bran has more endurance and stamina than Jordan, end of story.

Okay so we established Jordan's superior raw scoring numbers regardless of conditions/environment, and now your TS argument falls down because of the following reasons, in order of importance:


1) Shooting efficiency falls under the umbrella of efficiency per possession (ortg), where Jordan's was higher due to goat IQ (all-time low turnover rate) - the most significant factor is that Jordan's efficiency per possession was higher despite using more possessions (the most ever).. Accordingly, history shows that by using the most possessions ever at superior efficiency, it's possible to control a ball game better than anyone ever has (6/6) and lead the only dynasty that wasn't a "super-team" of all-stars and franchise players.

2) TS is correlated with brand of ball such as a drive-heavy rim attack, aka drive-and-kick "smashmouth" brand of ball versus a zippy ball movement brand and superior chemistry that requires more jumpshooting from the star.. The former brand (smashmouth) has the top 3 record losses in Finals history (14', 17', 18'), while the latter is 6-0 without needing a Game 7.. In other words, TS isn't a great argument..

3)) TS is correlated with the amount of defensive attention that a player faced, and MJ faced far more by virtue of Krause's roster that forced MJ to carry the scoring load, aka defeat max defensive attention - this negatively-impacts TS yet Jordan still was still within 2 points of Lebron in TS despite the night-and-day difference in defensive attention and scoring burden, as well as the aforementioned chemistry and brand of ball requirements of the team (more jumpshooting required).

4) Many people have better TS than Lebron, so TS is a weaker argument than Jordan's PPG, goat usage-level of possessions coupled with the best efficiency on those possessions (ortg), and goat scoring burden (carrying scoring load, aka defeating max defensive attention), or his goat 2-way arguments, or his goat clutch arguments, or his goat skill arguments (goat 2-point jumpshooter).

5) The TS margins above league-average are influenced by today's top-heavy league (3-and-D robot role players vs the stars/skilled players) as opposed to a more balanced level of good/great players in previous eras where it was harder to achieve TS advantage over peers.. Everyone shot like crap against packed paints and zero spacing, whereas today's stars have more ways to find advantages over their peers in a spaced-out, hands-off beginner format, and benefit more from this easier format than roles players, of which there are more in today's game (3-and-D) - large swathes of today's players are homogenized in the current spacing format (3-and-D) compared to the more intricate roles required of each individual in the no-spacing eras.

All those words and you still haven't addressed the core question - were you an inefficient chucker too? What was your PPG in college? You were so eager to share those personal details earlier when you were bragging about your credentials. Why so shy now?

He can't bully-ball with a full head of steam like Lebron.... and in some close-quarter situations under the rim, he's at a disadvantage due to a couple inches shorter and 20-30 pounds lighter.

Aside from that, Jordan's physique is superior for basketball.. We're seeing it with Anthony Edwards (another 6'4" "jordan" like wade was) - it's no surprise that when you put an all-time athlete with skills at the SG position, it fosters tremendous teammate development, chemistry and brand of ball, so the team can win more with less.. We saw it with Wade/Kobe - they were instant champs by just adding a single all-star, similar to Edwards and MJ

SG goats are the best goats because they obviously win the most with the least, according to history.

It wasn't so much hoops ability but the combination of that with other experiences and skills that fostered better understanding of the game

But ultimately, we're talking about Lebron here and there are 3 instances where we could've replaced him with you or me and it would've been the same result - record loss.. See the 14', 17' and 18' Finals - the 3 biggest losses in Finals history (bran-ball same as candybar-ball)

This is completely wrong. I'll leave it as an exercise for others as to what Montrealcorp did (because he is who he is) and why that's wrong in a hilarious way.

FWIW, Lebron missed 9.1 games per season on average, MJ 10.5. And that's despite playing 20 seasons to MJ's 15 and Lebron spending the tail end of his career in the fast-paced load management era. Their MPG is also almost identical, again, despite the fact that MPG for top players has trended down and Lebron spent far more of his career (due to not retiring multiple times) at an age where his MPG would have to be managed.

Is it really that embarrassing?

MJ is a couple of inches shorter than Lebron?

20-30 pounds lighter? Are we comparing MJ after bulking up to rookie Lebron?

I wrote this earlier but it's hilarious that when twog is talking about athleticism, he's using MJ from when he was at his athletic best (at around 190-200) and is trying his best to compare to Lebron after he's bulked up (maybe around 270) but now that we're talking about weight, he's trying to compare MJ that's fully bulked up (at around 220) that wasn't nearly as athletic as his earlier self, and comparing him to young Lebron (240-250) when he was athletically very much like MJ in his early days but bigger and taller.

Lebron being around 50 pounds heavier (whether you compare skinny versions or bulked up versions) with comparable athleticism and 4 inches of height is a huge difference in terms of physical abilities. I think Lebron also lost less athleticism by adding muscle than MJ (skinny MJ was slightly more athletic skinny Lebron but I think thick Bron and thick MJ were more or less equal athletically). The very fact that MJ lost a ton of athleticism by bulking up (but still ending up far skinner than even skinny Lebron) but everyone thought that made him a better player says a ton about the importance of strength.

65 games would be missing 1 game in 2012. 7 games in 2020 and 2021.

Christ, do you ever think before posting?

Talking about a playoff series from his 20th season, where he was obviously injured to downplay his endurance vs a guy that only played 15 while taking 4.5 seasons of vacations in there is impressive even for you

Kareem is the only guy you can really say matches Lebron's endurance and he slowed way down at the end, while Lebron is still a top 10 guy in year 21

Do you know how PER works?

Now add in MJs 2 x Game 5 first round elimination games. Still clear cut LeBron?

They’ve both been killers in the playoffs imo, that’s the point. The myth is LeBron is not clutch across his career because he choked in 2011, when we have a huge weight of clutch game 6 / game 7 performances since then that prove otherwise.

As an aside, Rafiki ignored those game 7 stats the first time the point was made so I don’t expect him to reply a second time (a feature of this thread). But the reason he’s taking MJ anyway is how he feels about it, and this thread is conclusive prove that you can’t change how people feel about the past.

?
Ok i just went through very fast without being precise so yeah for 2012 but it ain’t 1 season that will break the trend of missing a LOT of games for more then a decade …..
And even if it missed 1 games in 2012 it still wasn’t a full season so who knows if he would have played it all shrug .
Point is 55-70 is a number of game he usually plays regardless if it’s a short season or not right ?

For the rest of your post :

2019-20 lakers played 71 games LeBron played 67 games missing 4 ( yeah a good number but lucky the season got short again I suppose …..)
2020-21 lakers played 72 games LeBron played 45 games missing 27 ( 37% games miss )
2021-22 laker played 82 games LeBron played 56 games missing 26 games (31% games miss)

So I don’t see where u get your 7 games …

the guy played only once 82 games in 21 years ….
It’s just a fact LeBron james miss a ton of games .
Not just him but it’s the kind of era we have …

Bro you tried to take an average across all seasons when literally 3 of them were significantly shortened, therefore your math doesn't work.

Take the L and move on instead of doubling down on your ignorance. That your first reaction wasn't just to say "my bad I see where I screwed up" and instead you doubled down is frankly embarassing.

Jeez if the season was only 65 games and you played 65 games you must have still missed 17 games huh? ****ing facepalm.

Typical answer for a guy who never play at national level in any sport .
If u think playing 2A baseball at the level mj played aren’t athletes and it just vacation i got news for u ….

Probably MJ worked even harder then when he played basketball because it’s a games he mentality and his body isn’t familiar with .

https://www.ryanweissbaseball.com/bl...d-aaa-baseball

What would Chamberlain have to do to merit consideration? Obscene scoring, obscene rebounding, obscene blocked shots, obscene minutes played, iron man games played, and spearheading the two GOAT teams (to that point) to the title isn't doing it for him. His FG% was strangely weak admittedly for the first half of his career, say compared to Shaq or Kareem. FT% of course. There's a stat researcher putting him on about 8 blocks per game in traceable games. That's a whole lot of triple doubles. And an influence on the games he's in like no other.

huh ?
i did say my bad for the 2012 season so u want me to take the REAL numbers instead of a good approximation ? fine ?
tell me what is the big difference ...

including this year to be even more precise since 2012...
849 game played on 1010.
161 game miss almost 2 season...
missing 16% of the time around 13 games per season, plays 69 games.
that is since he was 28 !

since his 34 (around the age mj retired in 1998), lebron miss 26% of games in regular season !
played 333 games on 452.

and then i hear MJ would not dominate anymore because too tired and old ????
lol thinking mj missing so often like lebron he wouldnt be in great shaped to be all nba for many years past 1998...

how in the hell u arrive at that number saying lebron missed less games per season then MJ ???
Lebron played one time an entire regular season Mj played 9 full regular season and once 81 games and once 80 games....

How in the hell u arrive at 10 games per season o0....