Wow you just couldn't accept the proven point.

I didn't even read it. Still haven't.

Luka#1

1) Jordan
2) Jokic
3) Curry
4) Lebron
5) Luka

don't quit your day job

and maybe get a different hobby outside of following hoops.. you're bad at it and lack self-awareness of your shallow understanding of the game

I'm fully self-aware that you guys think "oh wow, this guy's a loser and a kook"... that's what insight always looks like to the ignorant.

Your misperception of my bold brain stems from your ignorance of the subject matter, so you lash out when being taught something new (like a child) and I must respond in a sometimes cringeworthy way (like a teacher) - the truth is cringeworthy sometimes.

Accordingly, my D1 experience playing on a daily basis against many NBA players coupled with a professional analytical ability is infact unique and allows for superior insight.. I've experienced the shift to a higher brand of ball where you're suddenly working harder for everything - faster transition defense, faster rotations required in the half court and more energy required on the glass or defensive end in general, which zaps your offense.. there's no way you're "getting hot" when you're on your heels defensively and facing more pressure than you're applying - jumpshots get exposed bigtime.. You don't understand this because you've never played at any level where brand of ball becomes a factor.

This applies to Lebron's game because his frontcourt ball-domination has a pattern of getting blown away - it's almost like it's a vastly inferior brand of ball.. So you're saying that Lebron-ball isn't inferior but it sure gets demolished like it is... And prime Lebron was destroyed by many opponents like the Magic, Mavs, Spurs, Warriors or Nuggets - catastrophic losses in his prime such as sweeps, record losses, and upset losses by many opponents - prime Lebron was everyone's b****.... Ultimately, Lebron-ball turns favored rosters (preseason favorites) into underdogs that barely meet the underdog expectation (4/10) - multiple teammate bailouts required.. you can't make this stuff up - he's a fraud - it's a fake debate

It's literally the opposite.

Lebron lost 3 straight games to lose the 2010 ECSF, 2011 Finals, 2014 Finals, 2015 Finals, 2018 Finals, 2021 1st Round, and 2023 WCF - he had a 2-1 lead in four of these series but lost 3 straight games to lose each series.. So there's a massive trend (many examples) of LeBall-Domination losing the attrition battle as the series goes on.

He also faded in the 2009 ECF and 2017 Finals (Kyrie's 40-ball prevented the sweep)..

And people forget Lebron's original choke - he had 7 turnovers in the 4th and OT of the critical Game 4 that swung the 2009 ECF.. So the factors that caused the historic upset loss was the aforementioned "original" choke in Game 4 along with his decision to defend Courtney Lee instead of Hedo for the series, and also his overall ball-dominance at 38 ppg - this kind of high-volume is too ball-dominant to beat top teams, so he can't carry scoring load, aka he never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from sidekick (zero carry-jobs vs top teams in 2 decades).. He can't beat top teams with 18 on 38% from Mo, whereas MJ won with that crap from Pippen all the time - Pippen averaged that for entire 3-peats or his Finals career.

^^^ smart rankings because any top 10 rankings should show similar player-types grouped together

Your rankings show guys with low hold-times (Mj, Jokic, Curry) grouped together and ahead of the higher hold-time guys, aka ball-dominators (Lebron, Luka)

My rankings are somewhat similar and ranked in order of the player-types that required the least help to win.

The expert jumpshooters like MJ and Curry can drop 40 while the ball moves, so they can effectively carry the scoring load and win with non-franchise guys like Klay, Pau or Pippen.. Otoh, centers have historically required more help, followed by ball-dominators, who require franchise players and all-time scorers at sidekick like Kareem, AD or Wade.

Accordingly, my top 10 has the best expert jumpshooters at the top because they required the least to win (MJ, Kobe, Bird, Curry), followed by the best centers (Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan, Shaq), followed by the best ball-dominators (Magic, Lebron, Oscar)..

KD would've normally fit in the rankings somewhere but his career was hijacked by the "decision", which constituted a 6-year headstart in the colluding space for Lebron - this headstart afforded all the fresh pickings' and luck that a first-mover enjoys.. Durant's only mistake was waiting 6 years to respond and appearing late/desperate as a result, while also getting the scraps (older/injured guys like Harden/Kyrie).. The "decision" makes it hard to rank today's players since it constituted a 6-year collusion advantage before someone finally responded (KD).

Yup, you were literally the only person to have played D1 basketball, how could I forget? And your "professional analytical ability" combined with D1 experience is so unique that you must be a sought-after candidate for all kinds of front-office roles? Right?

This is like a random burger flipper arguing that his experience gives him insight into how the fast food industry operates. Sure, all else equal, personal experience can add a layer of insight, but we already have lots of evidence that all else is not equal.

What does your "professional analytical ability" say about Lebron's record in Game 6 or Game 7? Or does it completely fail you when it comes to information that you're uncomfortable with? Like how it works fine when you're trying to cash SSDI checks but not when you're trying to actually land a job?

There probably isn't anyone in the front office of NBA teams that played D1 basketball and was a senior analyst in M&A. Requires an MBA or MS in Finance. It's a rare combination

You claimed that Lebron's teams did better down the stretch of series but when we compare Lebron and MJ, only Lebron has a significant track record (many examples) of his team losing series going away, such as losing 2-1 leads four times and losing the last 3 games of the series in the 2007 Finals, 2010 ECSF, 2011 Finals, 2014 Finals, 2015 Finals, 2018 Finals, 2021 1st Round, and 2023 WCF - opponents got stronger as the series wore on and Lebron's team got weaker and even gave up a few times.. His team also wilted in the 2009 ECF or 2017 Finals..

So this track record of losing many series by sweep, record amount, upset loss, or going away (last 3 games) shows that LeBallDominate is susceptible to getting ragdolled by superior brands of ball and therefore losing the attrition battle as the series wears on - the historical record confirms this with Lebron's teams weakening and getting blown away in the latter parts of many series, as listed above.

Again, prime Lebron was everyone's b**** because prime Lebron was destroyed by so many teams via upset, sweep or record loss like the Magic, Mavs, Spurs, Warriors or Nuggets - the hand-picked, preseason favorite, super-teams of prime Lebron were destroyed by many different opponents

Assuming actual IB / Wall Street type of job (which you are implying, but there are tons of lower-level positions that are similar-sounding, but a long way from proper wall street front office), "senior analyst" is an entry-level position. If you have an MBA from a top school, you would go straight to become an associate, which is a level above. I've met tons of D1 athletes that did very well in that world - if that was valuable, I'm sure teams would have no trouble finding people with that background.

Also, the way you're talking, you must be like 50+? You're talking about a job you had when you were, what, like 25? That's your highest level of qualification? Is this around the time your symptoms started?

maximizing career championship equity and you don't pick the guy that is still around 3rd team all-nba in year 20, and didn't skip 5 seasons come on, Lebron is far and away the alltime leader in career title equity(at least in the post 8 team league era)

The current Mount Rushmore of the NBA: Robert Parish, Vince Carter, Kevin Willis, LeBron James. Open and shut case boys.

Also what the hell happened in this thread and why is unemployedybar trying to dig into poster family dynamics with their mom and dad. I know LeBron James is important but c’mon guys this is really weird.

Welcome Back Matt

Alternative rebuttal (it’s honestly hard to pick just one with you guys and your world class arguments):

How on earth does LeBron James only have 4 titles in TWENTY YEARS of playing while superteam hopping multiple times, yet Jordan had 6 in 15 years of playing, intermixed with multiple years of time off due to a broken foot and retirement and the rust that entails when coming back.

Maybe if LeBron plays for 30 years he will catch Jordan but who knows right? He might run out of future hall of famers to play with.

Alternatively Kevin Willis and Robert Parish can come out of retirement, they can combine their longevities with LeBron, and they can get one more title (the goal of basketball. For those of you that have actually played sports competitively you would intuitively understand that).

Still would be one behind Jordan (while LeBron would have like 6+ more seasons played at that point). But he would be a little closer at least.

That would automatically be the GOAT team though. Because as you all know we sum longevities to figure out who the best basketball players are. And that makes sense and is not really stupid. I swear you guys do have the best arguments. Being serious.

Still like to dip in a few times a year and check the thread status lol. Seems like the LePlorables are going off the deep end lately though. Sad state of affairs. Weirds me out a bit how invested they are.

LeBron James is good at basketball guys. It’s ok. I’m sure your familial relationships are all wonderful. Carry on.

4 championship in 20 years is better then 6 championship in 15 ?
U know how equity works ?
Hell about kareem having 6 titles , he could had more if he didn’t had to play in college ….
38 years old kareem was 1st all nba and oh yeah , was playing 79 games not half a season like LeBron …
Won 2 titles at 39 and 40 .
Taking your flawed calculation I’m taking Kareem before LeBron ….
I’m
Taking both guys that actually have more titles .

you can be an associate without going to a top school, but entry-level is anywhere from analyst to senior analyst to associate - it's all entry level - you work the same deals and report to a VP or MD.

I was just giving you a taste and figuring you'd shut up... But I've done all kinds of things.. I managed bank of america's corporate office space leases domestically for example - not the bank branches - the high-rises.. And I did the deals as well.

Notice how I don't ask you what you do because I don't care.. I can just stick to the thread because I'm on the right side, while you must derail because you made a mistake and fell for junior-high-level propaganda.. You fell for the shallow propaganda because you understand the game on a shallow level.. Again, you should stop wasting your time trying to appreciate the game of basketball - you clearly can't

If Player A can thee-peat and Player B cannot, then Player A's ability to 3-peat provides more title equity than Player B's ability to be 3rd team in year 20

Player A won 6 titles in 7 years, while Player B went 1/4 with every lineup that we put around him, except the Allen miracle allowed 2/4

There is no way Lebron's 1/4 ring frequency in his prime provides more title equity than Jordan's 6/7 ring frequency in his prime, regardless of who is still All-NBA at 38.

Peak ability and the resulting massive edge in ring frequency provides more title equity than longevity, in this case (and probably most cases).

The instant MJ got 1 all-star, he didn't lose 3 straight games for 9 years - this shows more invincibility and title equity than Lebron's longevity or weak ring frequency in his prime despite more help, aka 5 seasons with 2 all-star teammates (zero for MJ) and a 34 to 9 edge in top 5 draft pick teammates.

LeBron further extends his #1 GOAT status half way through this season.


All-nba 2nd team level player at 39 years old and year 21 >>>>>>>>> What Jordan was at 39 years old.


The days where Jordan can claim to be the undisputed GOAT are dead. It's never happening anymore.


We won.

Fallguy had the right idea 10 years ago:


You saw it with your own eyes even 10 years ago fallguy, just accept it now. Jordan is inferior.

Proposal to start a new thread:

GOAT point guard, John Stockton or John Stockton?

Not only has he played m0re seasons in the same way LeBron James has the play m0re seasons award. He was also better than Magic Johnson, for example, at 39 years old.

This is why all the basketball analysts who have played sports before have John Stockton > Magic Johnson. It’s no debate, really. Shut the thread down, the Cheeto Xbox nba 2k simulation is definitive.

This would be a good idea for you to start a thread and discuss Stockton vs Stockton. Let us know how that goes and where the discussion takes you. Hopefully you learn something useful that you can share with us.