Butcho,

Thanks but the sub thing honestly is just mostly curiosity. I'm really against the idea of substitution right now. I want to kick everything.

Yes my problem was that I didn't realize how bad the constipation would be. Is that the same with heroin? Do you do anything to deal with it?

I am not a user of recreational drugs at all. I barely even drink. Never had a cigarette. Tried weed a few times in high school and thought it didn't do much for me so I never did it again. Never even come close to doing anything else.

Actually, pretty much the only drug with an abusive possibility that I've taken and felt the effects of are the pain killing opiates I mentioned. I probably have like 50 pills sitting in a drawer and I have no desire to take them because I just end up kind of stoned and stumbling around the apartment before passing out on the couch or in my bed. I don't really enjoy that because I don't like being medicated (alcohol, opiates or anything else).

But, I can see why someone would enjoy it because it is a very care-free feeling. If I had ridiculous stress levels in my life I can see enjoying the medicated feeling just to get away. I can't even imagine what it would be like if it was way more intense. That **** would just totally calm you down and make it seem like everything is fine. So I totally get why it would be addictive for a lot of people.

that's cool. you could always just browse around there. you'll find endless threads with people asking about subs.

and i understand what you're saying about substitution. but right now, you're thinking about heroin every hour, not subs. i think we can all agree that heroin is worse than subs, so if you ended up needing to use those for a bit as a first step of sorts, well, i just don't think you should rule it out just yet. just my opinion of course.

Layzie and others-
What is your experience with doctors writting for addicts? Are their certian docs you know to go to who will hook you guys up? I ask becuase alot of the junkies I pick up on the ambulance have the same docs names on their pill bottles and I was wondering how exactly that conversation goes. Is it "Hey doc, my back hurts, can I get some Oxy's?" or more honest? Less honest?

In regards to some of the harsh comments in this thread and the questions about why the forum is showing so much love, I think the answer is fairly simple. IMO, it is much easier to sympathize with an individual person who you have a "relationship" with (even on the internet) than a random junkie. I absolutly get both sides becuase I see the worst part of addicts almost every time I go to work (OD's are really, really common) but its easier to feel bad if you know the person or their story. Just my 2 cents.

Muy,

Prescription opiates have never really been my thing, I graduated from vicodin to oxycontin to heroin very quickly, and once at the heroin level most pills are meaningless.

I did used to be prescribed xanax for anxiety, though. This was before my heroin use. At the time I basically just smoked weed and had done most of the recreational drugs but had no bad habits. I really liked the few times I took xanax recreationally, and also knew they were very valuable. I pretty much just researched it, and told the doctor the symptoms he would need to hear. They started me on anti-depressants and low strength clonopin. I then read that clonopins are longer acting and that xanax is quicker acting so I told the doctor it wasn't working and he changed me to xanax without me ever mentioning it. I worked my way up to 120 1mg pills a month. I never really gained a physical dependency on them in the sense that I had no withdrawals like heroin other than trouble sleeping (which was a problem to begin with). Benzo withdrawal is very dangerous because of the risk of seizures.

This doctor wasn't crooked though, I basically just lied and got lucky. There are plenty of crooked doctors in my area that I know of by reputation.

muy-

should answer a lot about pills/docs/junkies

I have known a few people with addictions and I always think they have a strong self-destructive streak in them. Like they do it because they subconsciously enjoy wrecking themselves.

It's similar to some poker players I know who will kinda intentionally destroy a bankroll just to rebuild it. Like they can't fathom the idea of actually succeeding at poker over the long run so they just find a way to blow up and start over again.

I'm having a really tough time describing this feature I see in people but maybe you'll understand what I'm saying. When you've relapsed in the past do you think one part of you is thinking self-destructive thoughts? (FWIW, I don't mean suicidal...)

Can't be played outside of the US

move?

this work?

btw the pain clinic scene in central FLA is confirmed OFF-THE-HOOK..

lol at this guy Todd like ruining the scene

Weather is too nice in Grand Cayman to move

Yup, YT link works, gonna watch that

I guess I see what you're saying but I don't feel as if I fit in that category.

About the poker thing, it's kinda weird cause I have no gambling impulses whatsoever. I have never played anything other than poker in a casino, and back when I played I was a huge bankroll nit. I was basically either a long term breakeven or slightly losing player just making rakeback though.

lol, one of the times I kicked at home I flattened a car tire and gave my keys away. Unfortunately, the only real thing that's going to help with all of that is time. You need to get some distance on it. That also does nothing at the moment. Finding some way to fill the void that it leaves, and we were all using for SOME reason, is important as well. And I don't care what anyone says, ya the physical **** is rough, but the mental stuff is a million times worse.

I had written these longer posts yesterday/last night about some of my feelings on all this stuff but didn't post them. It's just so ****ing ******ed that we can't have it if we want it. The whole prohibition model is so ridiculous. The fact that it's illegal and 'valuable' is one of the larger problems with the whole thing. I firmly believe we're going to make no headway dealing with it in the current manner. x% of the population is going to use regardless of the consequences. They already do! Nothing is changing on that front. May as well take a rational approach and accept it. We need to stop locking up our people for this. How can you be honest in a system that is set up to be so dishonest?

Anyone ever smoked oxys? If so, what do you think?

I tried once, but it didn't get me very high at all. The burning foil is def bad for the lungs. Don't know much about smoking opiates though, not really the right person to be answering that I guess.

One of my good friends was mostly a smoker(dope). He was a great person, just a good friend. He was clean when I orig. met him like 7yrs ago. Then started relapsing/kicking had a real tough time. He came out to visit last Oct for a month, was clean and in great spirits,
then went home and od'd 2 days later and died.

Excellent doc, definitely worth watching. It is pretty absurd how abused the system is in Florida and I see what wet work is saying about how it's absurd that it's illegal. But... I actually think the net overall benefit lies with keeping it illegal and/or controlled. While tons of people do it regardless, the threat of jail and high cost do deter a lot of people. And given the very strong addictive properties it might be something where it's too dangerous to let people have unfettered access to it.

That being said, that sort of thing is obviously a gray line because at the same time I think it's ridiculous that the US Gov't is trying to tell adults whether they can spend their money on online gambling. Lots of people would make the same "people need to be protected from themselves" arguments for gaming. I think the distinction for me is threefold:

1) A much lower % of online gamblers get addicted than heroin/opiate users
2) There is a strong physical addiction to heroin/opiates that doesn't exist for online gambling
3) You can play online poker both recreationally and seriously and not be addicted to it. Not possible with heroin/opiates... although I guess some people might be able to use low dosage opiates recreationally and not have any serious problems arise from it. But no one can be a serious user and not be addicted.

So, yea, long story short I think it's good that drugs like this are illegal and controlled. We want to keep as many new users away as possible and jail time is a big deterrent.

wet work,

Sorry to hear that, that's terrible.

I don't want to turn the thread into an argument about legality, but to be clear, I think heroin should 100% be illegal. I don't feel that people getting caught with personal quantities should serve jail time, though.

I also feel opiate medications should be regulated... I don't really understand the significance of the online gaming comparisons, though.

I had the same thought after watching that documentary. Obviously prohibition is not the perfect solution, especially when the laws are as harsh as they are in the US, but the opposite isn't such a great idea either.
People should have access to pain medication, but they should also be aware that those pills aren't candy...

Sorry didn't mean to derail. The reason I brought that up is because I am simultaneously saying that people need to be protected from drugs as best as possible while also saying that people should be free to do what they want with their own money (ie, online gambling). There's a contradiction there so I wanted to explain where I differentiated the issues.

To put the thread back on track, you didn't answer my question about constipation and heroin...

Oh, ok I see I thought you were trying to say being a poker degen is comparable to a heroin degen.

Yes, heroin constipates you, but only while you're on it. Once you begin to withdrawal, the majority of people get diarrhea. Luckily, this is one withdrawal symptom I haven't had to deal with. I just become...un-constipated after about 24 hours past my last use.

...and to answer the next inevitable question...yes, I've gone several days without a bowel movement before, due to heroin use.

the worst is when you go more than just a few days. i have taken number twos that were so painful i cried.

Please keep the conversation up. There are many addicts in here not posting, but gaining lots of information. I wish you the best Layzie and will send you a PM.